A Conversation for Ask h2g2

In this mad mad whirled

Post 1

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

smiley - zen

An essential element of being comfortable
in the skin of a human-being is the sense of
control. Control over things, machines, our-
selves, our environment, etc.

But in this mad mad whirled this basic level
of comfort is constantly stressed by events
beyond our control. Madness lies in wait.

Happily, or not, we have the internet, the brave
new whirled of cyberspace where we can create
a sense of control with a little click here,
a little click there.

But what happens when we realise that it is an
illusion? Feel free to comment before letting
yourself fully imagine such a possibility. The
idea will grow on you.

Don't be afraid to admit that your dependence on
this self-deluding, habituated behaviour allows,
or insists, that you are happy to be in control
of at least this much of your reality.

Hey, if a simple fire was good enough for our
ancestors as they sat in frozen caves trying not
to think about bears and large predatory cats
then surely cyberspace can be justified as a
legitimate self-illuminating and warming
safe-space.

Yes? No?

smiley - fullmoonsmiley - peacedovesmiley - mammoth
~jwf~


In this mad mad whirled

Post 2

Rod


Basically, squigs - yes.

About as safe as that cave and fire was. As long, that is, as you keep yer wits about ye.
I'm told there are beasties out there in cyberspace, too.
Certainly there are unfriendly spirits inside this here machine, gleefully testing and noting that I'm losing me blerry grip slowly but ever so surely.


In this mad mad whirled

Post 3

Effers;England.


You'd love my present favourite comedy programme called 'Hotel'...the Grosvenor in Torquay....the manager can't cope with the very idea of computers, and its the only hotel without online booking...everything has to be colour coded with marker pens and tipexed..It's complete chaos.

It's bloody hilarious..

Internet is great but I have mixed feelings as well...


In this mad mad whirled

Post 4

Rudest Elf


"Certainly there are unfriendly spirits inside this here machine"

Too right! Malware bandits are eating me away - byte by byte. And it's irreversible.

Tread carefully, there are monsters about.

No doubt, I'll end with a song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px0c4Tgg6gg

smiley - reindeersmiley - spacesmiley - fullmoon


In this mad mad whirled

Post 5

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

In '23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism', Ha-Joon Chang tells us that washing machines may have changed the world more than teh interwebs.

Washing machines have freed up domestic servants and housewives so that they can enter the workforce as relatively cheap labour. The time previously devoted to laundry can now be used for production. This has increased growth. Similarly, villages in the developing world there might be great benefits if local water supplies freed up the two hours a day often spent fetching water.

With teh interwebs...we don't know. We *suspect* there have been some productive benefits - but it's not at all clear how radical these have been compared to previous technologies such as telegraphs and phones which cut the time for a message to cross the Atlantic from two weeks to a couple of minutes. However - 'we have all of the data short of any actual numbers'. Certainly the advent of teh interwebs has not delivered a peak in productivity.

We might want to think of this when investing in development. Does Africa need one laptop per child or one washing machine per family?

We've got lolcats, though. Maybe the lolcats have eaten into the productivity gains. Om nom nom.


In this mad mad whirled

Post 6

Mr. Dreadful - But really I'm not actually your friend, but I am...

The internet is a tool. And like any tool only a fool would think it 'safe'. Whether it's them doing something silly or someone else doing something maliciously the internet is not a safe place.

What is truly frightening to me is that people go online with absolutely *no* idea about the dangers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some doomsaying "there's a predator around every corner just waiting to grab your money/identity/children" type but it really does worry me that it never occurs to some people that the internet is not a universally safe and friendly hidey-hole. Sure, there are parts of the internet that *are* safer than others thanks to various bits of software and the hard work of a few human beings smiley - whistle, but the internet as a whole is not the cave with the cozy fire... the internet is the world outside with occasional roaming beasties and strange black monoliths.


In this mad mad whirled

Post 7

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

The way children are educated about teh interwebs is interesting. There's been a realisation that the genie is out of the bottle. Even with relatively young children, you can't completely supervise them. So you have to teach them 'You may accidentally come across something you don't like. Don't worry. Tell someone about it.' That's what I've taught my children.

But I dis have to institute a 'no downloading without checking' policy for a while after a machine got clogged up with all sorts of crappy adware.


In this mad mad whirled

Post 8

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

smiley - erm
It seems my question may have been too imprecisely phrased.
Responses have wandered off into a discussion of the known
dangers lurking in cyberspace. I meant only the personal space
of leaning over a warmly lit keyboard and the power that sits
at one's fingertips. The control and mastery of my environs.

Like our hairy ancestors casually tossing a few sticks on
the fire, I can click and stir the embers and create my own
level of light and warmth and ignore all that exists beyond
the glow of my 'personal' computer. By eliminating all other
facts and factors from my consciousness I can delude myself
into thinking I am in control of my own little cosmos.

The word I was looking for perhaps is 'escapism' but in the
manner of the ostrich. Or the dolphin with a mirror wall in
his tank. This glowing screen is all the warmth and light I
need to keep my cave cozy and the monsters at bay.

smiley - island
~jwf~


In this mad mad whirled

Post 9

Mr. Dreadful - But really I'm not actually your friend, but I am...

Again it's a tool. It's up to the user how they use it. If people want the internet to be a Brave New World then that's their lookout and more fool them.

I don't use the internet to give myself an illusion of control, and I pity anyone who does. I use actually trying to control my life for that.


In this mad mad whirled

Post 10

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

Imprecise? You? Never! smiley - tongueincheek

Well...maybe there's an element of 'If it isn't on teh interwebs it isn't real.' But swings and roundabouts, surely? Teh interwebs also opens one up to knowledge and friendships that aren't available in RL.

A good example is when people have the opportunity to open up about their problems in a way they mightn't with Real People.


In this mad mad whirled

Post 11

Mr. Dreadful - But really I'm not actually your friend, but I am...

"A good example is when people have the opportunity to open up about their problems in a way they mightn't with Real People."

This.

I've never hidden in the internet or regarded it as my little warm box of illusory control but it's helped me through some difficult stuff where for whatever reason I just couldn't talk to anyone about it IRL.


In this mad mad whirled

Post 12

Rod

There's truth there, ~jwf~, of course but then,
How do you cope when you go outside your cave for a pee?
What happens when you have to go and hunt breakfast?


In this mad mad whirled

Post 13

IctoanAWEWawi

"By eliminating all other facts and factors from my consciousness I can delude myself into thinking I am in control of my own little cosmos"

Just made me think of addiction. Blot out the problems, focus in, control my environment by shrinking it.

Also elements of the Total Perspective Vortex. We all screen something out to get on with our days. We all consign somethings and some people to 'other'. One could probably make a case for it being most things/people when you think about it.


In this mad mad whirled

Post 14

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

smiley - bigeyes

>> people have the opportunity to open up about their
problems in a way they mightn't with Real People. <<

>>..it's helped me through some difficult stuff where for
whatever reason I just couldn't talk to anyone about it IRL. <<

There, that's more like it.

smiley - cheers
~jwf~


In this mad mad whirled

Post 15

Edward the Bonobo - Gone.

On the other hand it's also a convenient way of making hours pass that should have been devoted to Real Things.


In this mad mad whirled

Post 16

IctoanAWEWawi

ah, but that is about control as well. About not having to do things.

Ah, boredom.
It only happens at work these days...


In this mad mad whirled

Post 17

Mr. Dreadful - But really I'm not actually your friend, but I am...

"On the other hand it's also a convenient way of making hours pass that should have been devoted to Real Things."

Oh I don't use the internet for that... that's what Skyrim's for...


In this mad mad whirled

Post 18

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

smiley - bigeyes

>> How do you cope when you go outside your cave for a pee?
What happens when you have to go and hunt breakfast? <<

Oh I cope very well in the real whirled.
smiley - ta
But I'm trying to keep the discussion focused on
the interface between the self and the electronic
camp-fire. Does it not give us a sense of power and
control to move about in cyberspace with a single click
of the mouse? To choose the environments we visit and
inhabit? To choose the people we engage with or ignore?

With some discriminating choices we can avoid anything
that offends or frightens us and keep our view fixed on
the things we like and enjoy. We can shape our experience
to our own desires and pleasures, like keeping a good fire
burning while exchanging stories with those we choose to
share our mammoth meat.

smiley - ok
~jwf~


In this mad mad whirled

Post 19

Rudest Elf


"we have the internet, the brave
new whirled of cyberspace where we can create
a sense of control with a little click"

One may have a *sense* of control, but that little click makes you vulnerable to uninvited, invisible and destructive pests... and it's likely to get worse.

We cannot always choose with whom we engage. They engage with us, without our knowledge, usually to our detriment.

smiley - reindeersmiley - spacesmiley - sadface


In this mad mad whirled

Post 20

Rod

~jwf~ (post 18) :

>>Oh I cope very well in the real whirled.

But I'm trying to keep the discussion focused on
the interface... ...
<<

Oh I didn't doubt your coping, any more than my own. With the real world, that is.
The interface itself is fairly easily covered - and has been.

My feelings about >>a sense of power and control ...<<
are simply that I can attend or turn my back without feeling embarrassed or being concerned about others' feelings (not to a great extent anyway).
On the other hand, if I send an amusing(?) message, a meaningful one or an insult, so can you lot (and you do, hey hay).

In a discussion, if I leave this pseudo-cave for a pee or breakfast, sleep or other reason, it has often moved on past reasonable response time - and not forgetting the post 21 syndrome, either.

So there are everyday type hazards, as well as the cyber-type, which can take on rather more significance than they might actually be worth in RL.

That was what my aim was in my above items. Significance is in the eye of the ificant and not all comment can be put lightly down.

... if I took a week, I might put it better - but hey, it's just a post.


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