h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm not going to keep arguing with you Peanut, you've obviously made up your mind. I have no problems with 13/14 year olds seeing that cartoon, no. No more than seeing many of the other pictures on h2g2 that I'm sure you could come up with an argue about if I weren't such an easy target.

oxygen, we changed the title of this thread for a reason. Every time someone posts to this thread under your original title it gets passed to the moderators, and wastes their valuable time. They already made the decision to pass the phrase, so why are you flaunting it again?

Please go with the new subject title for this thread. If you use it again, it will be taken as a sign that you want to tangle with the senior volunteers.

Lil
CE

In my post just now I said, "Please go with the new subject title for this thread. If you use it again, it will be taken as a sign that you want to tangle with the senior volunteers."

Let me make that more clear, because there is an ambiguous pronoun. Please go with the new subject title for this thread. If you use the original title again, it will definitely be taken as a sign that you want to tangle with the senior volunteers.

That's good Asterlil. I missed when it was first done that it was a CE/mod action. Perhaps it could be mentioned at the time so we know to not use the old one (very easy to do when replying to an older post).

*

Sho, that was very generous of you. I on the other hand read this:

>>
I never judged the site or anything like that,
...

And that attack, not just from Mubeta, is the sort of thing that I believe has scared away people in the past and will keep people from joining up now and in the future.

Its not the BBC's fault.
Its your fault.
<<

and thought: the community knows how to recognise a troll when it sees it.

With all due respect to Pastey and others who have said we have no way of knowing for sure, I'm not willing to sit around for a few weeks or a month and let oxygen build up enough evidence that they are the one they were before, whilst engaging in the same negativity about the site.

Their posts may seem reasonable on their own in this thread, but when put in context of the posts from the rest of the year they smack of the same degree of negative intent that led me personally to develop a very low tolerance for it.

If I"m wrong I will apologise. I have no problem with existing researchers taking a break and then coming back with a new name and identity. But not if they come back and engage in the same kinds of disruptive behaviour.

Hello Asteroid Lil,
I guess I don't understand.
I was aware the title had changed but was not trying to change it back.
I was just replying to an older posting.
You accuse me of flaunting it again.
Why are you accusing me of anything?
What have I done to make all of you so hostile to me?
Evidently you think I am someone you know?
If I was, what difference would that make?
Except for you to assume I am up to similar behaviour of that person's and therefore deserving of your attacks and accusations?

And what does this " Every time someone posts to this thread under your original title it gets passed to the moderators, and wastes their valuable time." mean? If they said the phrase was okay, If it had to be physically yikesed by me to even come to their attention (ie: no automatic filter action) then how is it now getting "passed to the moderators" "every time some one posts to this thread"? I am very confused.

And I would imagine any new person or person who doesn't know how everything works here, would also be confused. And for you to THREATEN me with some sort of thing where the senior volunteers (including you) will take that innocent action of mine as a challenge for some sort of fight is just horrible.

What really horrifies me, and should also horrify others I hope, is that all this is coming from people who are now working "in the back room."

It is very intimidating.
You have scared me.
Who else are you scaring?
Do you think they will pop up and admit it?
After seeing what happened to me when I just asked a few innocent questions and then later just tried to answer some questions someone asked me?

If things appear hostile at the moment, oxygen, it's because, as a new person, you happened to pick a conversation that has caused quite a lot of upset in the past.

As a newbie who wants to avoid conflict it may be better for you to pick topics that don't try to divide the community into voting, or picking a side, because any topic that tries to do that may well become an argument.

Hello Vip,
I think if you look back at the entire thread you will see that the hostility I am talking about is directed at me and not at the subject. And if you think that it is okay for people to treat me badly because i asked a difficult question then I am still very disappointed by this site. And that is putting it mildly.

Kea, you make it sound like you think I am disruptive.

I went over all of my postings up to two days ago.
I asked some questions in my first posting to get a discussion going about acceptable language in this noohootoo.
I had not seen any serious talk going on so I thought this would be a good subject.
I am sorry if I picked something you all are emotional about.
I am not emotional about it.
That is why I could put the phrase "arse muff" in the title; because in a live conversation with someone with that name it would be upsetting but to talk about the phrase is not upsetting.

So I ask some questions.
And right off the bat, people start attacking my grammar and other stuff.
And I answer those attacks back.
And then am accused of being disruptive.
It seems to me that the disruptive behaviour is coming from those attackers and not me.

The disruptive behaviour is coming from the attackers not the victim.

Oxy, take a breath.

There are some really helpful people in this thread who are doing none of the things you mentioned there. And yet you are totally ignoring their (our) contribution.

Some have used the T-word, some are tending to get to that way of thinking.

The fact is: there is little interest in the kind of restraint/censorship of language that you seem to want to be imposed on the site. So, why not just accept that (you know, accept the things you can't change etc) and go to other parts of the site where you won't see it.

PR is a good one for that and they are always crying out for people to come and help build the edited guide.

But how about a blunt question from me (NOTE: this is a blunt question, not an attack with a blunt instrument)

Are you
1) a newbie since we went back to being h2g2.com
or
b) a relative newbie (joined while we were in the last throes of BBCdom)
or
iii) a returnee from BBCdom
or
D) something else? (I ran out of categories)

Then we can look at your original question with that bit of knowledge (just as we look at RFs current nickname knowing his and the site's history and why it is as it is)

Sho, you said "The fact is: there is little interest in the kind of restraint/censorship of language that you seem to want to be imposed on the site. So, why not just accept that (you know, accept the things you can't change etc) and go to other parts of the site where you won't see it."

That I seem to want to be imposed? I don't know where you get that. At least not in the way that is worded. I voiced my opinion, that is all, just like everyone else on this thread has done.( And actually I have posted very little compared to everyone else.) So advice that I should "accept things I can't change" and "go to other parts of the site" (no conversation threads?) where I won't see this language YOU have decided I cannot tolerate, that advice is empty and frankly smacks of "if you don't like it, go away."

Also, it is not evident to me that "there is little interest in the kind of restraint/censorship of language that you seem to want to be imposed on the site" Looking back over the thread I can see lots of people who are interested in various manners and amounts of restraint.

It is very difficult to answer these things you people say because you put truths and nontruths together in the same complicated sentence and, really, it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff in a clear way. I just am not very experienced at this sort of thing. It appears that some of you are though.

What I don't get is that some of you have worked so hard to keep this site going.
And yet you seem to not be interested in encouraging creative and productive endeavors by anyone who is not "of you." even if those endeavors could improve the site and its viability and maybe even its number of members.

I am going to totally ignore your multiple choice question at the end of your post.
It is against my principles to play the "yes, but maybe we would be nicer if we knew who you are" game

I am a human being on the planet earth and I am mostly harmless.
Get over it and learn how to treat me with respect.
I deserve it.

ah ok
got it
you know I have been bending over backwards to be nice to you.
I actually don't have an agenda - but you see how you are reading things into my post that I didn't say.

And I was wording everything very nicely just to be welcoming to you. The fact is, that if you don't like something that other people have set up and don't want to particularly change (although as you can see from around the site, we are discussing this kind of thing and are doing our very best to be inclusive) then the best thing is to find something that suits you.

I suggested one place that is very welcoming of "new blood" so to speak and you take that as an "on your bike". Your prerogative.

As for the not answering the questions. That was a kind of lighthearted attempt to help you refute the comments that others have made here that you might be a - gasp! - troll. I don't really care one way or another since i'm a rare beast on the internet and I read the message and reply rather than look at the name and try to find an agenda.

You, though have been very rude to me. I can't help but think that you need to have a little think. Respect is earned not freely given - I tend to try to respect and be nice to people until they show me they don't really deserve it.

You can apologise any time you like for the "get over it". I'm one of the people in this thread that has been defending you, for want of a better word. If that's how you treat your allies...

maybe you need a cup of and a little lie down. (see, I can also be patronising...)

"I'm not going to keep arguing with you Peanut, you've obviously made up your mind. I have no problems with 13/14 year olds seeing that cartoon, no. No more than seeing many of the other pictures on h2g2 that I'm sure you could come up with an argue about if I weren't such an easy target."

Mina, if you won't engage with Peanut would you mind awfully answering my question about how a picture of a leather-clad woman holding a naked man on a leash is acceptable when other 'adult' content isn't? What makes you so capable of judging such acceptability while, as far as I can gather from your argments and I apologise if I've read you incorrectly, you think other people aren't? The fact is you MADE yourself a target by complaining about adult content whilst flaunting something that many would consider adult on your PS.

I am sorry Sho but it is difficult to equate "MB who is a long time and well respected member" together with "'m one of the people in this thread that has been defending you, for want of a better word. If that's how you treat your allies..."

Mubeta wasn't just rude to me, he was nasty and i mean nasty he used nasty words and went to my personal space and put nasty words and feelings and hostile hateful vibes into my space. He did this to me. He tried to hurt me. And you refer to him as "well respected."

You and some others need to stop and look around and think about what you are doing here.
Your are defending bullies and attacking victims.
You are telling a person who voiced an opinion to go somewhere else where they will be more comfortable. You are insinuating, nay, saying that this person who voiced an opinion is insisting it be the way things are done. You are misrepresenting who this person is.

Again, clearly, you and maybe some others are saying over and over that i am insisting that things should be the way i want them to be. But all I did was voice my opinion at the beginning of the thread and call for everyone else to voice theirs.

Interesting that you take such umbrage from my alleged rudeness to you and demand an apology. I think no one gets an apology until the people who have mistreated me apologize to me. I don't even think that what you consider rudeness on my part is even in the same league as the rudeness and attacks directed at me.

Let me also bring to your attention I am trying to carry on these conversations with a number of you, alone, one of me, many of you. How "welcoming."

Has this thread not died yet? The debate seems to be running around in circles and flaring up again just when it seems to have been settled.

No one has said anything new here for a while.

Kea, I'm not sure my personal opinion about the use of the name was clear so I will clarify that.

I have no objection to either word, and I have no objection to the two words being used together either in forum posting or in entries into the Guide.

However, we have about 500 active researchers at the moment (it was around 200 before we left the beeb) and over 10,000 people reading the Guide everyday. That number is also growing. My concern is that some words used in a nick name may very well present the wrong first impression to those people coming along to h2g2 to read and seeing things that let's face it, don't really represent who we are.

Does the person who chose the moniker deserve to be censored? No. But I'd like to think that they'd think about the actions around that before choosing it.

Does the person who chose to complain deserve the backlash? No. But I'd also like to think that they'd think about the likely results of that first.

We used to have a heavy handed moderation system when we were with the BBC, and I'm very glad we don't have that know. But we have to take responsibility for out own actions. If you change your name to something like Mr Meat Curtains, you *will* have to expect some complaint. And rightly so. Also, if you complain to the moderators, who are all volunteers from the community, and don't like their decision, well tough. You can then talk about it on the boards, but don't expect everyone to agree or feel sympathetic to you. That's just the way of life.

Life, don't talk to me about life...

Mina,

I am quite unpset that you are saying that I posted my comments because you are an easy target.

You initially jumped down my throat because you misunderstood what I meant about adult content. I tried to clarify that. And was then confused when I went to space and saw an image that is adult.

You are saying that you want the over 16 restriction to be lifted, I do too I do not find that image offensive I just said that some people would be unconfortable with it as parents or individuals. If we put it to the daily mail readership, in the context of promoting this site to school age children how would they respond do you think?

I've got to go out now be back later.

But as we are are testing the system, what do people think about me discussing Germaine Greer's statement Lady love your **** on my personal space. **** rhymes with hunt.

all the best Peanut

Blimey... that is all.

You know when you are reading a thread and it feels like watching a foreign language film with half the subtitles missing? You know where oyu kinda know what is going on but you are missing some key details.

I kinda feel like that on this bad boi!

FB

on the contrary, Pastey, I think we have an interesting issue here.

And it's not actually about the original subject at all: it's a very good lesson in how we come accross on the interweb, and how what we say (or think we are saying) can be taken completely the wrong way.

It's difficult in internet land to get a handle on some things. Hence Oxygen thinks that s/he is posting in a reasonable way, so do many others here (myself included) and the fact that at least one of us (me) doesn't know who Oxygen may or may not be (if you see what I mean) and the fact that some of us (despite what Oxy might think) are keen to get to the nub of the matter, it keeps being bogged down in the

'I said / I saw you say' kind of thing.

It's about how much we accept someone, apparently new to the site, coming in and asking a question about something (naughty words) which has a huge amount of baggage from our previous incarnation and feelings run high.

The thread also has one or two subtexts which may or may not belong here, or somewhere else.

Perhaps we should, oldbies and newbies alike, take another look at the thread and see if Oxy's accusations of being attacked really do stand up. Or if the OP was as provocative (from a newbie) as some seem to think it was.

It's about the culture of the site, surely?

The original subject line and all occurrences thereof have been/are being altered to prevent additional work for the moderators.

Community Editors

"Arse Muff". I don't have a problem with it. It's a butt warmer. Who doesn't need one of those.

Looking at the OP again, no it wasn't as provocative as some have said.

I'm just changing the title back to something that won't automatically refer the post to the moderators every time.

At the moment ever time someone says 'arse muff' it automatically gets referred to the moderators, we really need to preserve their sanity at the moment.