h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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Well, not really.
The British kicked the French out of Spain, and the Russians... ever heard of 1812?

If we want to look back at Napoleon and other old stuff, one might argue that ever since 1066, the English are technically French.

From my limited experience, some French hate "les Anglais" because they do everything differently: drive on the other side, use of non-metric system, etc. But maybe it is more due to tradition.

And "les Anglais", in this context, could mean anyone who lives up there in the British Isles: English, Scottish, Irish, or, for the more geographically aware (or the rugby fans), the Welsh. That's all "les Anglais" to us

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We are actually Franco-Saxon hybrids.

I'd say there's a certain amount of Briton (that is, Celt) in that mix too.

Toybox, "les Anglais" can also extend to USAians, Australians, and all those weird people who speak that weird language.

Kuzushi, we French don't bother with that kind of technicalities. If it's got "Franco-" in the name, it's French*.



* except for that general guy. He was Spanish.

A particular bugbear of some French people is that the lingua franca of our world in most contexts is not French but English. French used to be the language of diplomacy, and was spoken throughout the courts of Europe, but its position has been usurped by English. Even within the EU French is fighting a losing battle against English. This rankles with certain French people.

Mind you, I think having your language as the main means of global communication is a double-edged sword. There are certain drawbacks, which other languages are spared.

"since 1066, the English are technically French"

There's a case for that, I agree entirely. There's also a good case that the English are also technically Italian(Romans), German(Saxon), Danish (Angles), Scandinavian (Norsemen) and a bunch of others who were here before all that lot arrived, all mixed, but not as mixed as you'd think.

And I, personally, like the case that the English - the white English, that is, the "indiginous English", to use Nick Griffin's ludicrous and obviously inaccurate phrase - are in fact the descendants of the Italians, French, Germans, Danes and Scandinavians who had the ambition, drive and energy to cross sea and land to find a new home and subdue the previous inhabitants, leaving behind in Italy, France, Germany, Denmark and Scandinavia all those Romans, Normans, Saxons, Angles and Vikings too weak, timid, retiring and pathetic to do the raiding and pillaging thing.

With a heritage like that, is it any wonder this country had the largest most powerful empire in history?

"My country is the French language"
("Ma patrie, c'est la langue francaise") Albert Camus

... and for many French people there is a feeling that their language is in retreat, and they resent this.


Here's a French website dedicated to bemoaning the encroachments of the English language:
http://www.avenir-langue-francaise.fr/

<< the "indiginous English", to use Nick Griffin's ludicrous and obviously inaccurate phrase - are in fact the descendants of the Italians, French, Germans, Danes and Scandinavians who had the ambition, drive and energy to cross sea and land to find a new home and subdue the previous inhabitants, leaving behind in Italy, France, Germany, Denmark and Scandinavia all those Romans, Normans, Saxons, Angles and Vikings too weak, timid, retiring and pathetic to do the raiding and pillaging thing.>>



Funnily enough there is now DNA evidence that the English are 75% descended from inhabitants predating the Roman invasion. The idea that we are largely Anglo-Saxon appears to be erroneous. We share much more of our DNA with the Welsh than was previously realised.
I think the author's name is Oppenheimer.

"Everything you know about British and Irish ancestry is wrong. Our ancestors were Basques, not Celts. The Celts were not wiped out by the Anglo-Saxons, in fact neither had much impact on the genetic stock of these islands."

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2006/10/mythsofbritishancestry/

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The alternative could be a similarity to those who founded America - the losers, malcontents, troublemakers and religious extremists. Seriously, if you are successful in your life, why move? If you have achieved nothing and have nothing to lose, starting again with a blank page in a new country must be appealing.

And what kind of people let themselves be conquered by life's losers?

I'll just post this little interesting bit about the myth of us being Anglo-Saxon:

"The genetic evidence shows that three quarters of our ancestors came to this corner of Europe as hunter-gatherers, between 15,000 and 7,500 years ago, after the melting of the ice caps but before the land broke away from the mainland and divided into islands. Our subsequent separation from Europe has preserved a genetic time capsule of southwestern Europe during the ice age, which we share most closely with the former ice-age refuge in the Basque country. The first settlers were unlikely to have spoken a Celtic language but possibly a tongue related to the unique Basque language."

So, we are more post ice-age hunter-gatherer than Anglo-Saxon invader.

From this we see that Nick Griffin's phrase "indigenous English" (indigenous with an 'e', from the Latin 'genus') makes more sense than many people might realise.

...so the English mostly came to England through what is now... France.

Yeah, but not speaking French...

"Here's a French website dedicated to bemoaning the encroachments of the English language"

Can't read that. Is it available in English?

Yes, we should tell them to translate it.

>>Here's a French website dedicated to bemoaning the encroachments of the English language:
http://www.avenir-langue-francaise.fr/<<

I had great fun looking at their "alternative to Frenglish" vocabulary. I seriously think someone should tell those grumpy old men/women/small furry creatures that language changes, evolves, borrows from other languages and it's *normal*.
I half expected to find an alternative to the English word "barbecue" in there...
Also the alternative they give to "brushing" is just plain wrong. The French word they give ("balayage") refers to a colouring technique. That's not what a brushing is, is it?

@ Gnomon. to do with me saying our culture is founded on conradiction.

>I understand that perfectly, Sleeting. I was just trying to propose an answer to why _some_ English people apparently hate the French.< post 40

Gnomon I've never met a person who hates the French..and you did say in post 21.

>English people arrogant? I don't think so. Most of you are constantly apologising for having had the arrogance to rule other countries in the past, and you won't even fly your own English flag or celebrate St George's Day for fear it might offend someone.<

I would say the contradiction is to do with on the one hand being intensly proud and to a degree arrogant about our amazing culture and producing people to name one or two like Shakespeare, Newton, Darwin..and yes even Empire..and *also* feeling bad about our colonial past and sometimes disastrous effects on other cultures..such as I mentioned Australian aboriginal culture.

We are both warlike and aggressive, we needed to be because of our proximity to other warlike nations in Europe, and self effacing and modest...or as you say apologising.

@superfrenchie: but they do seem to have "challenge" (which was taken as was by the English from the French, a long time ago). I didn't bother checking for more; a little bit was fun.