h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

France's defeat by England at Waterloo:

1. That's the English view. Most people would consider that the English held the French off until the real army, the Prussians, arrived.

2. If you go to Waterloo, you'll see lots of exhibitions about what a great general Napoleon was. You won't see anything about Wellington. (OK, Waterloo is in Belgium, not France, but it shows the attitude on the continent). Despite being beaten, the French consider Napoleon to be the greatest general ever.

English people arrogant? I don't think so. Most of you are constantly apologising for having had the arrogance to rule other countries in the past, and you won't even fly your own English flag or celebrate St George's Day for fear it might offend someone.

i don't know where you are getting this information from Gnomon. This area is covered with the flag of St. George on St. George's day.

The thing about England is that it is a mosaic. So its very silly to generalise. And that's what I love about England. I can go 30 miles from here back to where used to live in Ashdown Forest..and you will find an entirely different culture..and they don't apologise about anything.

There isn't really much bad feeling. There isn't really much feeling at all one way or the other. Most of us view France as just another country that's over the water somewhere.

I'd say it's an opportunity for racist people to feel like they can get away with telling racist jokes without getting sat on.

Napoleon *was* a great general. Until Waterloo he was kicking the proverbial out of us and everyone else. Credit where credit is due, that man was good at what he did, even if that was war.

French men are supposedly much better lovers..and the French traditionally always kept their bedrooms well heated for better enjoyment of the obvious.

Plus, does Wellington have a theorem to his name? There we go

He does have a boot, though.

Despite being beaten, the French consider Napoleon to be the greatest general ever.

So they consider a loser their greatest general

Churchill and Nelson are our greats...oh and Elizabeth the first..the Elizabethan age saw an amzing flowering of culture and of course Shakespeare..the greatest of them all.

Hows that for lack of arrogance and apologising?

"an opportunity for racist people to feel like they can get away with telling racist jokes "

The inconvenient fact is, some racist jokes are funny. Another inconvenient fact is, even if you're NOT a racist, you could find some racist jokes funny, if only in a "Oh my god you can't say that" way that seems to be the reaction Jimmy Carr is going for with every joke her write.

English people telling racist jokes about the French? We never enslaved them. We never starved them. We never colonised them. We never stole their resources. We acknowledge, ruefully, that they have a better work/life balance attitude, that they make wine greater than we can ever dream of making, that their language, while not as versatile or expressive as ours, is more beautiful to speak and hear. Ultimately, if we denigrate them we do so clearly partly out of some jealousy, which is not something you can say about racist jokes between most cultures.

I have always viewed the relationship between England and France as like that between siblings that "hate" each other. The one beats the other up incessantly, but if anyone ELSE tries to, suddenly their OURS.

Of course, I speak as someone who absolutely loves the garlic stinking, Gauloise-smoking b'tards.

"The inconvenient fact is, some racist jokes are funny."

I guess I have a different sense of humour to you. That's not a dig, by the way, I really do think that. That's why I'd watch Bill Bailey over Jimmy Carr. Different humour for different folks.

"Ultimately, if we denigrate them we do so clearly partly out of some jealousy, which is not something you can say about racist jokes between most cultures."

It's not something I've thought about much, but I think there's a lot of merit in that statement.

I was generalising, as was the person who asked the original question. Obviously not every English person hates the French, and of those who do, not all do so for the same reasons. Not all English people are somewhat reluctant to boast of their Englishness.

But many I have met are. They do not feel that if you are English you are automatically better than everybody else; that anything made in England is better than anything made elsewhere; that the English education system, health service, government are the best in the world; and that nobody need go to foreign parts for their holidays because everything you would ever need is available in England.

Many of the French I have met do feel all the above about their country.

And I think that is a major reason why the English dislike the French.

"nobody need go to foreign parts for their holidays because everything you would ever need is available in England."

Well, yeah... there's no reliable skiing in England, and no reliable sun. Whereas I know a guy who has a flat in Nice, where he can guarantee to be able to get a tan in summer and drive a couple of hours to guaranteed snow in winter. They have a point. See what I mean about jealousy?

...and they have Nice biscuits!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_biscuit

And just when I was thinking about eating Marmite on toast for a mid-morning snack...

And they have the good sense to really value 'Esgargot'

Seriously their food is amazing even in the most ordinary of places..and you can sit next to a lorry driver on one side, and a woman in a mink coat on the other, (well she won't be wearing it..but you know what I mean).

And they don't have a problem with hunting as a general cultural value.

That's because hunting in England is something we associate with aristocrats.

The French had the right idea what to do with *them*...

Oh hum. In France, hunting is rather regarded as the thing that drunk brutes do, rabidly killing all innocent fluffy animals, or just shooting randomly at everything which moves (so better to stay at home when hunting season is open).

From what I understand, hunting in Germany is taken much more seriously, and even accepted as having ecological value (as in, we don't want boars invading our cities). And it is also widely recognised there that game tastes good

Gnomon I don't think you're understanding that what goes to the heart of our culture *IMO* is 'contradiction'..and that is very sophisticated and civilised...because the human condition ultimately is founded upon contradiction.

I understand that perfectly, Sleeting. I was just trying to propose an answer to why _some_ English people apparently hate the French.