h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The costs of maintaining the peace should be borne by the fanatical trouble-makers who refuse the right of speaking freely and cause any havoc. The idea that these people should post bonds is stupid; they are the peaceful one ----causing no trouble whatsoever.

If you don't like what they preach, don't listen.

It is very difficult to stand by the grave of your brother, and hear him called every vile word that the language can produce. And condemned to ultimate damnation because of his ways, profession or what-ever. That is one by-product of free speech.

Which, btw, was never a reason for me to wear a uniform. Freedom to choose a way of life, that was more my idea

In 1620, England threw out a bunch of religious extremists on a leaky old boat called the Mayflower.

Anyone know what became of them?

Just fixing the header

Puritans, eh.
They rounded up the last 800 of the Pequod indians,
trapped them in a stockade and burned them to death.
They later invaded Hawaii, knocked down idols and
banned the hula dance.

~jwf~

Freedom and tolerance must be a two way street.
Those who refuse rights to others cannot be allowed
to demand their own for the sole purpose of spreading
their venom and hatred.
~jwf~

Michael Moore vs Westboro Baptist Church:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4

Excellent!

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," Voltaire

That's my philosophy unreservedly. And I say that as a bisexual person who has been on the receiving end of some really nasty stuff from bornagain christians.

But some principles are just too important.

Oh dear.

I think you mean - "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Voltaire was referring to a work by a protoge by the name of Helvetius which was widely considered to be rubbish. However, when the French King read the work, he was infuriated and ordered all copies destroyed. On the basis that anything that annoys the King must be good, Voltaire and the intellectual elite rushed to defend Helvetius, Voltaire is directly attributed with "What a fuss about an omelette. How unjust to prosecute a man for such a trifle". Hall later wrote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" was his *attitude*.

In reality, intellectual snobbery was behind a closing of ranks to defend something of quite poor quality.

Is that the principle you find so important effers?

No I've made it abundantly clear what my pinciple is. And apart from any thing else on a personal level it is the only thing that maintains my sanity.

You can play around all you like swl but I'm sticking to it..and I would happily fight for it.

Anyway your country is free to make its own decisions on the matter. I'm clear what decision I'd like my country to come to....but I'll abide by the democratic process of course if a different decision is arrived at than the one I argue for. But it won't stop me arguing.

<>

My country is the same as your country, the UK. Immigration and border control is a Westminster matter. The glorified councillors in Holyrood have no say in it.

And the UK has repeatedly acted to stop hate-mongers of varying creeds entering the country. It's damn near a tradition, you could say.

yes and I'm very clear in my own mind now that I can't wait for the dead hand of Britishness to be lifted from England..and I find more people agreeing with me.

It is a deeply help principle here that unless someone does actual violence we have nothing to fear.

>>There is not yet a world-wide definition of human rights.

That's irrelevant in this discussion Nick. Non-Brits don't have any rights of access to the UK other than what the British govt gives them. So the issue is what human rights are considered to be in the UK. And I'm fairly sure, from what TRiG has said, that the WBC knows exactly what the UK laws are.


Can someone clarify the differences between Scottish immigration and English? Is that two different govt departments?

>>
My country is the same as your country, the UK. Immigration and border control is a Westminster matter
<<

Ah, that's what I thought but was getting confused by Effers' posts.

<>

No - it's *only* dealt with in Westminster.

they have different internal law. But since the recent elections the perception more and more here is that Scotland is a separate country.

Of course the Westminster parliament is the 'British' one.

One day it'll be the English one.

Effers, are you ok to have the UK allow extremist Islamic preachers into the UK, on the free speech principle, where it's known that they will also be involved in terrorist organisations?

"It is a deeply help principle here that unless someone does actual violence we have nothing to fear."

I'm not so sure that's true. Censorship is far from unknown in Britain - that's not to call it a totalitarian dictatorship, but there's a history of censorship going waaaay back*. It certainly wouldn't be setting a new precedent if they weren't allowed in.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Britain