h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Halal stuff - A25928742

The PR thread is pretty interesting.

As much as two minutes for a beast to die ... I wonder how long an oyster lives after being swallowed alive?

We need an expert on bivalve molluscs.

So your conclusion was that its a moot point because industrial halal-esque slaughter makes stunning a necessity? Effectively a non-issue?

One thing - even when slaughter is done halal-but-without-stunning, I seem to recall (and I may be wrong on this - I admit I havent got a source handy) that a veterinary authoritys report concluded that it probably wasnt an enormous lot crueler, if at all, than normal, non-halal, industrialised slaughter.

Which is why I personally cant see why some single it out for special opprobrium. (Well...I know why *some* single it out, but Ive made that point already).

What noise annoys an oyster?

Interesting thread swl. I see when you made your visit to the slaughter house the chickens weren't stunned but the sheep were. The whole thing seems farcical to me. As you point out on that thread..it's one thing for a small tribe of people to do it..but another when it's industrial scale.

The film footage I saw was small scale stuff and showed how long it took the blood to drain the conscious animal. The animals were twitching a lot and were clearly terrified when brought to the person doing the killing. I could never work out how this could be done on an industrial scale.

Round here more and more takeaway places are opening saying the meat is halal..that is to make sure the Muslims who visit will buy. Never mind that 90% of customers are non Muslims. A chicken and chip place just opened round the corner with a big halal sign.

I never buy from those places...And if they all go halal I'll just stop buying any takeaways. I only buy an Indian about once a month in any case.

Are you possibly a little naive on the non-halal industrial slaughter of poultry? Theres plenty of off-putting footage of that around. If concerned, your most consistent course of action would be to avoid it altogether.


Aside...

Spike Milligan, although a militant vegetarian, would eat venison on the grounds that deer are usually slaughtered at long range via a single bullet to the heart.

As ever, one man's meat is another man's haraam

Not sure whether to put it back into PR anyway. As a dry, concise description of *what is understood to be halal slaughter in the UK*, it might be ok. But yeah, halal slaughter in this country is pretty much sphericals. When a visitor enters the abbatoir, they slow down and mumble some religious heeby jeebies, but when no one's looking they just kill the things as quickly as they can.

The kebabs I used to get, when I lives in Manchester were from a halal kebabary (most seemed to be, and I either had to eat takeaways or starve to death as there were no cooking facilities), ... they were some of the best kebabs I ever found... Not sure if that was to do with the halal or something else... maybe just better quality meat

btw...you can still by Indian without qualms, Frs. Dhal is well tasty.

>>When a visitor enters the abbatoir, they slow down and mumble some religious heeby jeebies, but when no one's looking they just kill the things as quickly as they can.

Bit like the way non-Muslim abbatoir practices change whenever a vet or health inspector visits, no doubt.

Purty much

I useually now, tend to stick to the vegetarian aspects of the menu in an Indian resturant... The side dishes are particularly often more tastier than many of the mains, which are more to 'a westurn sense of taste', somethign like veg samosas for starters, adn then go off regular, and have something like a tarka dhal with roti or naan or chapatii for mains... mmm... having said which, I still do have to have a nice lam dansac from time to time

Is Tarkha dhal made with real otters?

Yes dhal is well tasty. I got into making it a lot this year. In fact I think I'll make some tomorrow.

Seeing as I've lost my taste for meat this will be pretty easy to handle. I had the same experience of feeling sick when I passed the meat area in the super today

By my god those oysters were good..and £4 for a 1/2 dozen much cheaper than fish&chips. I'm lucky to have a brilliant fish mongers up the road. God they had some grorgeous big Cornish bass in today. I could always treat myself to something like that sometime..and freeze most for later.

Only... if your real lucky... its useually some quorn or toffu crap

Not having lived in England for quite a few years now (since 1997)my question to the panel is:

how much would I have to pay for a good quality portion of cod and chips from a fish and chip shop?

I used to love it.

Lapis (salivating at the thought of it).

>>Is Tarkha dhal made with real otters?

The otter the better!

Nice £3.50 lunchtime special here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/approved_entry/A536546

Ask for it Desi Style. Tell them I sent you.

"(In fact I wonder if Hugh Wittringham-Twitteringham et al possibly have a negative effect? Do they allow people to hold on to the myth that all their meat comes from happy, healthy animals? If thats the only kind you see on telly, thats what you can allow yourself to think.)"

Well, when he did his programme on battery chickens, he went in to the sheds, into the abatoirs, spoke to a lot of people on the inside and passed the information and footage on to people on the outside and it was pretty brutal. He may put forward a relatively kind and pleasant way of rearing and slaughtering animals, but he doesn't hide the grim realities of mass meat production. If you get a chance, watch Hugh's Chicken Fight (I think that's what it's called). He starts swearing in a supermarket when he finds one of the women he's been working with on the project buying cheap chickens.

As a slight aside to that but to get back on track a bit... I find it hard to say whether or not one type of death is more or less violent than another. Killing involves some form of violence. I've seen programmes where a tribe kill an animal by sticking a long sharp stick through it's ribs and straight into it's heart. Cutting an animal's throat might seem 'worse' but is it, really? It's more bloody and visually grisly but there is no kind way to kill an animal. Shocking it still involves a moment of violence before the death. Game is probably your best option if it bothers you. Deer that are shot after they are scared are considered worthless because the adrenaline taints the meat. I suspect that a clean shot from nowhere is about as good as it gets!

Personally, I'd rather eat an animal that has been killed with a minimum of fuss and bother after living as natural a life as possible. That's why if I were to eat veal, for instance, it would be the produce of a free-range dairy farm and I would need to know that the young bulls have been allowed to follow their mothers at grass. i don't like intensive, indoor farming, which is why i've signed petitions against intensive UK milk farms. I never buy anything other than free-range eggs and when I can (pretty often) I buy meat from carefully selected places. One good-sized free-range chicken breast can do for two people, so it might cost more but you're getting much more for your money, really. It is sometimes hard to justify, so when times are lean, I buy thighs and drumsticks instead. I can't bring myself to buy the grim stuff. I just wish my local takeaway (they make their own naan for their kebabs!) would make their chicken shish free-range. Falafels for me otherwise.

>how much would I have to pay for a good quality portion of cod and chips from a fish and chip shop?<

Last time I went, Cod and chips about £5.20. But you can't rely on the cod being good. Sometimes good...sometimes not.

Only decent cod and chips I've had is in seaside places. Best ever in Portsmouth, near the Royal Dockyard.

Actually I bought a load of frozen cod steaks yesterday. I just can't shake off it being my favourite fish.