h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Lest we forget who we are :- F19585?thread=3140234&skip=180&show=20#p81316813

<<As I've said before it's the destiny of my grandkids that worries me. You lot are doing your best within the rules but your complacency beggars belief. Too many members of our society are taking out more than they are putting in and far too many serious criminals are escaping justice. <<

You are mixing ideas. You said that because of parents don´t spend time with their children and have to hand over them to professionals, "their destiny is set" I told you all that about the role of education and teachers, then you come with that we are complacent, that is: that we are self-satisfied despite a danger, a trouble and serious criminals are escaping justice.

So, what do you mean? What is supposed professionals should be doing? Which professionals? From my pov the professionals that are doing wrong are the legislators, children can´t be treated as adult criminals.

I should mention the mantra of my Children's Panel trainer. She would tell us all about the problems children suffer, the neglect, the abuse, the crime they fall into. She'd discuss case reports. But at the end of the session, she'd say:

'But don't worry...Most kids in Scotland are doing just fine.'

Let's get things in perspective. We are not facing the imminent collapse of society.

Im sorry but speaking from personal experience we're far too eager to spare the rod nowadays. Teachers are being seriously assaulted daily, stabbings and assaults with children as instigator and victim is commonplace, feral children stalk some streets. In my street there is a gang of children aged from about 8 to 18 and they terrorise me my neighbours and friends, The police are powerless and ASBos don't seem to make a difference. ~If the police won't act then vigilantes will.

>>HonestTony

No but what did it do for you and the society ?<<

I don't think it did much for me or society. It stopped another student from getting brained and that's about it.

>>Do you think things will improve?<<

Yes. If I didn't, I wouldn't be in this job. Don't get me wrong, my job is incredibly hard and very low-paid. The negatives often outweight the positives but every once in a while I get a big win, a shining moment where I realise I've just changed a kids life for the better.

If it wasn't for those times, I'd have quit long ago.

>>Remember the school days are the happiest days of your life.<<

That simply isn't true, for most people their teenage years are their worst. There's a reason teenagers are far and away the group most likely to commit suicide.

Some people have a good time at school, but they're the exception rather than the rule. Most people look back with nostalgia at their schooldays because its fun to remember a time when you didn't have many responsibilities and because time heals all wounds - heck, it's starting to happen to me and I'm only 25 and in spite of the fact I had horrific school days.

It's hard work being a teenager - don't let anyone tell you different.

>>On your point about respect, who do you respect in todays world ?<<

Do you want the entire list? Even if I gave it to you it wouldn't be much use because I'm a fairly unusual specimen: a victim of severe child abuse, legally an orphan at 17, first in my family with A Levels, let alone a degree.

It was actually my school that taught me to respect folk, but they didn't do it with violence or discipline: they did it with compassion, warmth and endless patience.

Ask Ed: he went to my school back when there was corporal punishment and accordingly has a rather different view of the place.

>>It was actually my school that taught me to respect folk, but they didn't do it with violence or discipline: they did it with compassion, warmth and endless patience.

>>Ask Ed: he went to my school back when there was corporal punishment and accordingly has a rather different view of the place.

Indeed. I have little respect for it. My brother and I still harbour fantasies about firebombing it. I'm glad it had improved by HI's day.

The teachers I *did* respect, though, were the ones who didn't mete out physical punishment but who took an interest in children as individuals.

Come on Not the monkey U14332090 usually Edward the Bonobo U803114.

Of course it is not about the .
It's about Jon Venables, a misfit that is a problem to society. A problem that if swept under the carpet will eventually have dire consequences for society and the large majority of decent citizens.
Unfortunately everyone is more concerned about him than about his crime against society. He and those few like him do not deserve such sympathetic consideration.
Good performers expect and should receive respective reward bad performers should expect and should receive respective punishment.

Having established that his upbringing may have had some effect on his behavior.
What about his treatment since he committed that first awful crime ?

Despite best endeavours, he (allegedly) reffended. As far as we know he didn't torture and kill another two year old - but he (possibly) reoffended in some way.

Can anyone offer a foolproof way of stopping *anyone* from committing a crime? Why the fuss about Venables?

If Venables had been jailed for life, would he have re-offended?

Voice:

>>Im sorry but speaking from personal experience we're far too eager to spare the rod nowadays

Reality check:

You may have experienced a time in which children were beaten.

You may have observed a deterioration in behaviour since then.

Does it follow that the one has led to the other? Has anything else changed in the intervening period? (I can think of various *massive* social changes). Why single out child beating as the cure for misbehaviour?

>>If Venables had been jailed for life, would he have re-offended?

Well...leaving aside that one prisoner may offend against another, or against a prison officer...

If you wish to live in a world in which a ten year old is locked up for the rest of his life, then you wish to live in a very different world to one that I would find tolerable. If we believe that people - including children - are irremediably evil without possibility of change...then there's no hope for us.

irremediably -> Irredeemably

And I'm still not sure I've spelled it right.

You asked for a foolproof way of stopping Venables offending monkey. I gave you one. If you don't like it, it's of little concern to me.

As Venables is alleged to have a thing for little boys, I hardly think other prisoners or guards are at risk.

>>You asked for a foolproof way of stopping Venables offending monkey. I gave you one. If you don't like it, it's of little concern to me.

My bad. I should have added 'Acceptable to decent people' or somesuch.


>>As Venables is alleged to have a thing for little boys, I hardly think other prisoners or guards are at risk.

And we all know that tabloid newspapers are always right. The earliest reports alleged 'Drugs related violence'. Neither you or I know whether either of these is true.

I wonder, incidentally, how we'd feel about preventing *all* crime by locking *everyone* up?

That'd work. Can't argue with that.

Who gets to define "decent people"? You?

Seen this before, attempt to claim moral high ground by insisting "you" think the same as "decent" people so every other opinion comes from indecent perspective, or "subhuman" in your eyes eh?

The majority of "decent" people in Britain would have cared less if Venables had been hung on 18th Birthday.

Yup. Hanging is indecent. I stand by that.

Calmly leading someone into a room, putting a rope around their neck and opening a trapdoor in the floor? Nope. Contrary to our decent instincts.

While I can see accept and share revulsion at monstrous crimes (I promise you, I'm not letting anyone off the hook), we should rise above any instinct to kill. We should be *better* than murderers.

Your in a minority then because support for the death penalty is steady. Isn't "decent" defined by society as a whole not just one small self-appointed part?

The majority of "decent" people in Britain would have cared less if Venables had been hung on 18th Birthday. <<<

Yeah, but why to wait until he was 18? Better hung when he was 10, even better in a square, or at the playground of any school, and still better if it had been televised.

is that your idea of decency?

::
Have you got children, Voice? are you going to beat them? why? how much?

No Maria I have no children any more. If he had lived to murder as Venables did< I would have strangled him myself.