h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>>They are ugly? I'm not into quizzes, just get to the point please.<<

They're hairy. Simple enough really. They don't need to wear clothes, they have a rather effective covering already.

>>The vast majority of people cover up for modesty in todays world. If this wasn't the case you would find people walking around naked much more.<<

Prove me wrong. Show me a tribe, either current or historical, that's lived in an area with extremes of temperature who went naked. Then you can say you've disproved the hypothesis that an evolutionary explanation for clothing is that it protects from extreme temperature or weather. Until then, the hypothesis stands unchallenged and you're claims have *nothing* to support them.

>>What type of modesty do you hold?<<

I get naked as much as I can. I find it comfortable and my environment is pretty temperate so I can get away with it without risking injury or illness. My friends aren't stuck up, repressed or particularly squeamish so they don't have a problem with it and I don't have an issue with them seeing me.

>>Theory is not a fact<<

Ahh, no-one can do circular reasoning like the faithful. That we've evolved from simians isn't a theory, it's a demonstrable fact. Your god isn't. Accept it and move on.

"""""""They're hairy. Simple enough really. They don't need to wear clothes, they have a rather effective covering already."""""""

So at what stage did the hair decline in order for them to suddenly realise they now needed to keep warm? Did they cover the whole body?

"""Prove me wrong. Show me a tribe,""""""""

Why a tribe? I can walk out of my house now without any clothes on, its nice and warm. So too can millions of others around the world, why don't people do this?

"""""I get naked as much as I can""""""""

So if the weathers fine, why do you wear clothes at all?

""""""Ahh, no-one can do circular reasoning like the faithful. That we've evolved from simians isn't a theory, it's a demonstrable fact. Your god isn't. Accept it and move on."""""""""

No its not, many scientists and the majority of the HUMAN species don't agree that man evolved from simians, if you want to demonstrate it with your own words, go for it.

Hum, it is a theory. It is, however, a damn solid one.

Cricky, I'd forgotton how jumpy some of you (us?) atheists can be. Yes, so can the theists, but why not just back away from an argument that you full well know can only go in circles?

I was actually interested in finding out the answer to the question...

most humans, if they think about it at all, think the earth is flat. It doesn't make it true.

You're wrong, stanley, whether you accept it or not.


Show me your god. Demonstrate your god.

Look, you´re the ones dragging religion into this. Not Stanley.

""""""""most humans, if they think about it at all, think the earth is flat. It doesn't make it true.""""""""

No they don't and many knew the earth is not flat hundreds of years ago.

""""""You're wrong, stanley, whether you accept it or not.""""""

That's the best argument Ive ever heard. Thanks

""""Show me your god. Demonstrate your god."""""""

How?

Lets stop deflecting the issue.

When and why did simians get the urge to cover their private parts. There are many photos of simians with only their private parts covered, why not the whole of the body if it was due to climate?

as someone pointed out earlier, clothing at root about ornamentation, not 'modesty' (a religious concept which stanley dragged into the discussion with the initial subject line, BTW). The question stanley poses is a leading one, and it leads in a false and a religious direction.

I don´t see clothing is basically about ornamentation. That just comes later, because we like to present a certain image. Clothing came about from trying to keep warm.
Still, the subject of loincloths is still a problem.

>>o at what stage did the hair decline in order for them to suddenly realise they now needed to keep warm? Did they cover the whole body?<<

I don't know, but I suspect at least some of the answers are in the book anhaga linked to but you refused to read. Hard to find evidence when you refuse to read the sources...

>>Why a tribe?<<

Because an individual can act in ways that don't serve its own survival. People en masse tend to act in more conventional ways. Tribes also tend to live a subsistence-style life and be more focused on survival.

>>I can walk out of my house now without any clothes on, its nice and warm. So too can millions of others around the world, why don't people do this?<<

Billions of people can go walking several miles a week, indeed it would be highly beneficial for them to do so. And yet you've got hundreds of millions of Americans who walk less than five miles a week. What, exactly, is your point?

>>So if the weathers fine, why do you wear clothes at all?<<

Well, I work with kids, so if I didn't I'd probably find myself in the back of a police van. I also work in a professional environment, so if I didn't wear a particular type of clothing, I'd probably find myself looking at my P45.

And I've been outside naked today and I'll probably do so again later. I have a private roof garden and I can't tell you how good the sun felt against my skin.

>>No it's not, many scientists<<

References please. Put up or shut up.

>>the majority of the HUMAN species don't agree<<

Since when has that carried any truth value? I was looking around the International Slavery Museum today (It's amazing. See it if you can) and it reminded me that 200 years ago the majority of the HUMAN species believed slavery was acceptable. Your holy book is quite a staunch advocate of it, by the by.

400 years ago, the majority of humanity believed the Earth was flat and orbited by the Sun, planets and all the stars in the universe.

<<I can walk out of my house now without any clothes on, its nice and warm. So too can millions of others around the world, why don't people do this?<<

What´s your answer to that?
I still don´t get your point.

There´s a tribe in Bolivia who eat in private, they don´t want to be seen by others. However, they shag in public, no embarrassesment at all.
Could you say why?

"""""""""I don't know, but I suspect at least some of the answers are in the book anhaga linked to but you refused to read. Hard to find evidence when you refuse to read the sources...""""""""""

Why don't you read the sources and paste the relevent information?


"""""""Because an individual can act in ways that don't serve its own survival. People en masse tend to act in more conventional ways. Tribes also tend to live a subsistence-style life and be more focused on survival.""""""""""

All well and good but most people in the world don't live in tribes. So why do they cover up when the climate is fine to be naked?


""""""Well, I work with kids, so if I didn't I'd probably find myself in the back of a police van. I also work in a professional environment, so if I didn't wear a particular type of clothing, I'd probably find myself looking at my P45.""""""""""""

So society has *evovled* modesty? Why?

"""""""References please. Put up or shut up.""""""""

No need as you would just disagree with them. My point was simply not everyone agrees that we descended from monkeys.

>>Why don't you read the sources and paste the relevant information?<<

Because I charge a fair amount of money for being a persons personal tutor and I've no intention of doing it for free. Why don't you get off your intellectual fat arse and do your own work?

I know religious types are used to being spoon-fed, but then so are children. It's a habit that both should be weaned off.

>>All well and good but most people in the world don't live in tribes. So why do they cover up when the climate is fine to be naked?<<

Because most people have learned behaviours that have nothing to do with survival. As I stated, tribes tend to be more focused on surviving and don't have time for such superficial mores.

>>So society has *evolved* modesty?<<

Do you even understand the distinction between evolved and developed? Do you know what evolved even means?

As for why modesty developed: I don't rightly know. I have some theories but since I'm not a psychologist or an anthropologist, they're just amateur ponderings. One thing that does seem true is that it's not a universal human concept so there probably isn't an underlying evolutionary reason for it. It's much more likely to be learned behaviour, as has been noted by others on the thread.

>>No need as you would just disagree with them<<

I'm not the one of us with the closed mind. Try me. Make them irrefutable so I can't dispute them without abandoning my cherished logic. Or is this another of those things that you can't be bothered doing?

>>My point was simply not everyone agrees that we descended from monkeys.<<

Not everyone agrees the Earth is circa 4.5 billion years old, not everyone believes rape is a bad thing, not everyone believes the Holocaust happened. So what? They're wrong. End of.

Evolution happens. End of.

""""""""Because I charge a fair amount of money for being a persons personal tutor and I've no intention of doing it for free. Why don't you get off your intellectual fat arse and do your own work?

I know religious types are used to being spoon-fed, but then so are children. It's a habit that both should be weaned off.""""""""""""



How is it my work when it will back up your arugument? So its in your interest to paste the quote, not mine to discover it.

"""""""Because most people have learned behaviours that have nothing to do with survival. As I stated, tribes tend to be more focused on surviving and don't have time for such superficial mores.""""""""

So when did people learn this behaviour of covering up their private parts and why?


""""""As for why modesty developed: I don't rightly know.""""""

Well done.

""""""It's much more likely to be learned behaviour, as has been noted by others on the thread"""""""

At what stage in the evolution from chimps to early man did this behaviour become learned and why?

"""""""I'm not the one of us with the closed mind. Try me."""""""""

No need this topic is about modesty in humans or simians to humans modesty developing. Ive done the evolution deciet on here before.

>>How is it my work when it will back up your arugument? So its in your interest to paste the quote, not mine to discover it<<

Incorrect. I'm apathetic. You don't want to learn, it's your loss, not mine. I'll read it at my leisure.

>>So when did people learn this behaviour of covering up their private parts and why?<<

Because some repressed and retarded freaks started telling people their body and their sexuality was something to be ashamed of. They told lies to gullible people to try and strengthen their case. Many of use can see past their hateful deceit, sadly many cannot.

A blunt question: what do you think of your body? I'm not asking about the little niggly bits that everyone had and hates, I'm asking for whether you think you body is something you should fundamentally ashamed or proud of.

>>At what stage in the evolution from chimps to early man did this behaviour become learned and why?<<

Anyone else getting a sense of deja vu here? Do your own research, find out for yourself and then come and enrich us with the benefit of your studies.

>>No need this topic is about modesty in humans or simians to humans modesty developing. Ive done the evolution deciet on here before<<

If it's irrelevant, why did you raise the point? You were the one who brought up evolution and then when called on it, you start crying foul. One of us in this exchange is being deceitful and it certainly isn't me.

"""Incorrect. I'm apathetic. You don't want to learn, it's your loss, not mine. I'll read it at my leisure."""""""

I want to learn your point of view or don't you have one? Its a simple request. How about giving me the page number(s) and title of the book(s)?

"""""""Because some repressed and retarded freaks started telling people their body and their sexuality was something to be ashamed of. They told lies to gullible people to try and strengthen their case. Many of use can see past their hateful deceit, sadly many cannot.""""""""""


Did you just make this up or is it in Darwins book? Why did the simians believe this and why were they so gullible?


""""""A blunt question: what do you think of your body? I'm not asking about the little niggly bits that everyone had and hates, I'm asking for whether you think you body is something you should fundamentally ashamed or proud of.""""""""

Strange question. I love my body and look after it very well, its athletic and the woman who has the privilage of seeing it can't keep her hands off it.

In public im modest, this doesn't mean Im ashamed. Its a very important difference.

"""""Anyone else getting a sense of deja vu here? Do your own research,"""""

Don't you have a view or don't you know? Here is the question again.

At what stage in the evolution from chimps to early man did this behaviour become learned and why?


"""One of us in this exchange is being deceitful and it certainly isn't me.""""""""

Oh come on, im trying to stick to the topic.

Stanley: Try reading The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris, I believe he talks about this. You can probably find it cheap in a second hand store.

""""""""Stanley: Try reading The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris, I believe he talks about this. You can probably find it cheap in a second hand store.""""""""



Thanks, will look it up.

Can you remember any bits from it which are of relevence to the topic?

Not really, read it 12 or so years ago. I´d imagine he covers this subject though.

Xanatic

O.K Thanks.

If anyone knows at what stage in human history did we start covering our private parts and how the level of modesty grew, i'd be interested.

Im off to get naked and please my fellow evolved creature.

I'm wondering if anyone knows at what stage of human history we decided that sex with pre-adolescent girls was a bad thing.