h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

It would seem that one must first number things before needing to represent the lack of things.

<>

I read somewhere a couple of years ago that it's something to do with the fact that maths is so pure (as in new discoveries merely add to it rather than changing it completely).

<< <>

I read somewhere a couple of years ago that it's something to do with the fact that maths is so pure (as in new discoveries merely add to it rather than changing it completely).>>

Nah, It's because maths is so complicated, the real world doesn't understand it, and goes along with the predictions "Just in case", so it doesn't look silly.

Maths will always change {see GEB, D. Hofstadter}. {sp}
{see also any total arithmataic encapsulation, all of which are [or will be] extinct.}

One may never posess 0.0 chips.

X - X = ?

What is the factor of pi that will equal an even number. (the lowest)

-to all you who have more serious answers, thanks. and i'm reading tham too, but c'mon now...

"I heard there was a time when zero didn't exist. Technically speaking, was zero (0) invented or discovered?"

Technically speaking, there never has been a time when zero did not exist. It was the absence of a reference for the concept (that refered to what we know as zero) that did not exist. So when people started using the term 'zero' to refer to this concept, someone actually just created a new word or term. All mathematical concepts can be looked at this way. Mathematics was not invented by people, people just created terms or words to refer to something that has always existed.

I would say that mathematics is something that humans created as a model of the real world and that its useful because its fundamental precepts are based on observation of that world.

I don't see it as having an independent existence of any sort.

So could there be a, um, parallel universe where maths is completely different, say a number system without prime numbers?

If parrallel universe's existed, yes.
Unless you define a parrallel universe as one that contains the same mathematical principles that we know, then no.

Actually, I'd disagree that mathematics is good for describing our world. Like any other model, it's an approximation, and not a particularly close one.

Maths is great for describing/understanding things that were made based on mathematics in the first place, but really rubbish when it comes to nature. There's a whole worldwide culture of mathematicians trying desperately to modify the model in horrendously complicated ways to describe nature's simplicity because nobody has the guts to admit it's just not right for the task.

I find the way that complex scientific theories built around and extrapolated using mathematics come out to incredible degrees of accuracy to be a good example of maths being very useful for describing our world.

Plus if you compare the right fractal to the right leaf...

Is zero only necessary in Base 10, or would it be needed for other number systems as well?

It's needed in number systems which use a place system, which includes base 2, base 5, base seventeen and so on. It's not needed in systems which use different symbols for ones, tens, hundreds, etc, such as the Roman Numeral system. Such systems are limited, though.

Hmmm, I think I will try and invent my own number and patent it. Then charge the mathematicians loads of money when they realize they need it

So is it true that perspectives in painting didn't work too well untill zero was discovered?

Zero was discovered/invented long before perspective in art.

Well I suppose you could find another undefined function and extrapolate a number system from it like with i=sqrt(-1). Maybe let k=1/0 and work from there.

Perspective in painting didn't exist until people saw the need for it frankly, i.e around the time of the rennaisance when artists got more concerned about accuracy than about iconology. Even at that it was way later before they got the hang of it properly.

The evolution of mathematics is one of the very few things in history that has had little impact on art

Have a look at the entry on John Horton Conway A2982468. He invented not just a new number but a whole new type of number, the Surreal number, which includes the real numbers but has lots of non-real ones as well.

Sounds like a brilliant man. The sort of eccentric genius that the world needs more of!

But it just goes to show - if you want to describe nature with maths, you've got to chuck the rule book out the window and try something new.

Psycho chicken, I disagree. There are mathematical patterns all over nature. What I would say is that, as they are chaotic, they are not much use describing particular situations. This is merely due to the initial conditions being incredibly sensitive in any situation.


And as for that art thing...*breathes deeply and slowly*