h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Having just seen the conversation "What's wrong with the French" - I thought I'd try and inject a little balance with a counterblast against my own dear country (to whom I vow....etc.) We really are a sorry nation, are we not:

We think we're meant to win at every sport.
We don't read authors in translation.
Our newspapers cover 98% British news.
We disgrace ourselves on Mediterranean holidays.
Our food is a disgrace.
We STILL have salmonella in our eggs.
We've given our food production and distribution over to a cartel of supermarkets with the result that we can no longer buy a decent, ripe peach and even our cabbages are imported.
We are the poor man of European health anmd safety (and of environmental protection).
We think we can opt out of the level playing field of EU Labour laws.
We won't even acknowledge our atrocities against the Irish, least of all against the rest of the world.
We still look up to that stupid Windsor family - and erroneously imagine that the rest of the world does too.
We are unwelcoming of visitors and immigrants.
We refuse to learn languages other than English - even those working in our tourist industry.
Our trains don't run on time. If at all.
Our streets our filthy.
We treat the sick and the elderly disgracefully.
We are sexual prudes and hypocrites.
We believe that everything great in the world came from us.
We only ever see things from our point of view.
We glory in an imperial past when we rose up on the wealth of conquered nations.

Of course....I'm generalising. As does anyone who attempts to characterise a whole nation.

Yep, I agree.

Add to the list:
the appalling state of our education and health services
the way we lean on America
that protest of the people (May Day, Stop The War etc) have no effect on the government
that no one votes in elections
Big Brother!

We think we're meant to win at every sport
- Well our tabloid press thinks this way ...

We don't read authors in translation.
- True as a generalisation.

Our newspapers cover 98% British news.
- The tabloid press for sure; closer to 80% for the broadsheets though.

We disgrace ourselves on Mediterranean holidays.
- True as a generalisation.

Our food is a disgrace.
- not it isn't, however it is overpriced and the food distribution channels are driven by the desire to maximise profits often at the expense of quality!

We STILL have salmonella in our eggs.
- everyone does as it is endemic in chickens!

We've given our food production and distribution over to a cartel of supermarkets with the result that we can no longer buy a decent, ripe peach and even our cabbages are imported.
- try farmers markets, farm shops, local green grocers, butchers etc. if you don't like what the supermarkets sell do not buy it and shop elsewhere.

We are the poor man of European health anmd safety (and of environmental protection).
- Yes and no - we make a much bigger deal in our media about H&S breaches than the rest of europe does - the general incidence of H&S breaches is broadly similar across western europe.

We think we can opt out of the level playing field of EU Labour laws.
- sadly yes but then whose fault is that? If our trade unions had stuck to what they were there to do, not got involved in trying to unseat governemnts and had regulated themselves then Thatchers governemnt and those since would not have been so zealous in reduce labour rights etc.

We won't even acknowledge our atrocities against the Irish, least of all against the rest of the world.
- sadly true.

We still look up to that stupid Windsor family - and erroneously imagine that the rest of the world does too.
- well our tabloid press does and therefore ...

We are unwelcoming of visitors and immigrants.
- well our tabloid press is and therefore the morons who read them tend to ...

We refuse to learn languages other than English - even those working in our tourist industry.
- historically true, however this is slowly changing as more employers seek staff with language skills.

Our trains don't run on time. If at all.
- gawd don't I know it having to commute 85 miles each way every day

Our streets our filthy.
- certainly in London that's true, in Dover it is not the case as the local street cleaners do a fantastic job. Sadly, most major european cities are getting like London (Paris, Brussels, parts of Amsterdam to name a few).

We treat the sick and the elderly disgracefully.
- we are back to the pursuit of profit over quality.

We are sexual prudes and hypocrites.
- true

We believe that everything great in the world came from us.
- in general sadly yes

We only ever see things from our point of view.
- again in general sadly yes

We glory in an imperial past when we rose up on the wealth of conquered nations.
- well yes but so do most first world nations which of course doesn't make it right.

Yes, generalisations all, Ross. And there was a certain degree of iron in my posting. I was disturbed at the posting which singled out the French. First stones, and all that.

The Sam 'n Ella one, though...yes it IS endemic in chickens in many countries. However, others (e.g. Sweden) decided that this might be a problem and set out to solve it - successfully. Over here, however, nothing appears to have happened since Edwina Currie mentioned it. RExcept we're not meant to eat mayonnaise any more.

More sorry traits of the British:
We still believe that we make the best TV in the world.
We can't make a decent film.
We drove Quentin Crisp into exile.

surly, insular, two-faced, moralistic, arrogant, hypocrites who are too willing to believe the worst about people with little evidence.

Not only the worst traits of the British, but bad traits in whichever country you are in. Until later....
BCNU - Crescent

Politicians and Media that practice "Little Englanderism"

Institutionalised racism.

House of Lords

conservatism / Conservatism - not sure which is worse but suspect the former.

Rose tinted view of the past

the way we wholeheartedly embrace US popular culture

adherance to the class system.

the "its not cricket" mentality

whingeing rather than complaining

Well, everyone, I'm an Australian, so where should I start?

There are basically good and bad sides to English people (and indeed all people in general), sadly though, here in Australia we see a lot of the bad side and slightly less of the good. I'll repeat what Ross said:
<>.

These are the three things I find least comprehensible about English/British people as a whole. As for whinging, the reason the British have such a bad reputation for this is because they do it overseas! These are people that leave Britain (after deciding it was a sh*tehole, or some such) and come to Australia, which they call a 'paradise' when they first arrive. But three weeks later - what are they doing again? - oh yeah, whining about the problems Australia has. And it's not constructive whining, just making feelings known with no intent to do something to change things.

For example, some english people (Dorset is in England, yes?) I've met came to Australia to get away from the English weather. They arrived here in WA in April (this is mid autumn for us). The first few days, the weather was fine with cool evenings (very typical at that time of year). But then a high pressure system crossed the coast and they freak out about how hot it is and how it's not supposed to be hot at this time of year (they'd figured out the reversed seasons). But when you say, why don't you try going down the coast for a few days, or get energy efficiency measures in the home, or whatever, they won't listen. This behaviour is common to lots of people, I agree, but many Aussies notice it best when a British person does it.

I'll add some too:

British people in Australia just don't seem to understand how strong the sun is here (we're pretty much under the ozone hole for some of the year). And when an Australain warns them to use sunscreen, they think we're pulling the p*ss. Umm, no, we're not you guys, we don't like the sight of your red and glowing skin either.

Why can't Britain get the hang of the metric system?
What on earth is with the class system?
Why do you like Neighbours - Australians don't even like it!
Same for Fosters!


Can't think of any more at the moment, give me a little while

Ami of zx

Thanks for this thread - it's a good read, and all so very true.

I'm trying to think of some good things to say about the British, but when pushed to come up with generalisations I can only remember examples of arrogance and insularity.

However, lots of the negative characteristics are shared by other nations - the French, too, are notoriously reluctant to learn other languages. A large number of Germans believe their tabloid news, and German commerce and lifestyle has an even greater tendency to soak up everything American.

All Hootooers are, of course, excepted from these generalisations - British and American alike.

Hang on there seems to be a bit of confusion Re; British & English

I could go on and on but one of the traits is that I would be chastised for daring to comment when I'm not British!

As the only Canadian in my family who was born in Canada rather than Britain I've had my share of explainations of why the UK is *better* than the rest of the world. Of course with Scotish, Welsh, and Irish relatives in the family as well I've heard why it's not.

Ross and Ami seem to have it right. The class system is unbelievably stratified to an outsider and I personally know Brits who feel they are doomed to stay in their *Class* because of birth. The metric system, the EU problems, etc. all seem to stem from the *rosey view of the past* and the subsequent inability to see flaws in the systems. It seems to feed on itself, really. Only by ignoring the present can the entire country represent itself by celebrating past achievements. My favourite quote about it is to the effect that Britain won the war (pick one, but mostly WWII) because it couldn't understand how it could lose. Cute and generalised perhaps, but with a core of sad truth.

The only thing I would add is the rigid view of the English language the British have. The whole point of English is that it is constantly flowing and adapting, it's a living language which is why it's so popular. England like France seems to have a problem with anyone else messing with *their* language. It'll all work out in the end, people! It did with the inclusion of French, German, and early technological idiom! We can still read Shakespeare's English but we can't use it to describe a sub-orbital flight (other than to express beauty perhaps). We can admire Chaucer but aren't likely to be sending any emails or even writing a poem in that style.

Sum Emails are cumming in

pdante has as usual pointed out inconsistencies in a brief but pointed manner.

I have stated elsewhere that I personally don't like txtspch but I've also said that it may have an eventual effect on the language. My reference to the language here was meant to only include new words and some logical grammar changes. My bad!

i love english me

<>

IMHO, it's certainly better than the American, and the NZ TV! In NZ, 65& of what we see here is American, and the NZ comprises one soap opera and endless reality/gardening/house selling and makeover shows. So, British TV (what little we see of it) *is* the best!

Ami, my father came from England to NZ (via the USA and South Africa) and all the time he was here until he died, he had to put up with being called a "whinging Pom" - but he wasn't one! It's an ignorant stereotype! Is Australia the same? or do "Poms" there *really* whinge more than say, the average Scot, or Ozzie? A talkback host here in the '70s, started a campaign (with T shirts and all) to "punch a Pom a day" and the Kayways here thought that was a laugh a minute! I was just glad my father didn't live to see that, or there would have been a few Kiwis punched in return!
<>
I don't know how it is in Australia, but in NZ there is a lot more snobbery and class sneering and bickering here in NZ than I have ever heard of from rellies in the UK...

About the metric system:

I am confused. I was born with the metric system fully adopted in our schools. I clearly remember weighing things in kilograms and measuring distance in metres etc

So how is it now, a scant 5 years since I left, I averge distances I my head in terms of miles, I think of my height in 'feet', and I weigh myself in 'stones'?

By some bizare coindience Iwas discussing this with my next door neighbour an exchange student from China. I mentioned I lived about 16 miles from the nearest major city (Sheffield) and he asked me what 16 miles was - and I didn't know - and still don't know what the equivilant distance is in kilometres. but I SHOULD.

Theres something pervasively imperial about this place... It's Very Strange.

Also we obsess about the weather. It's plain flat and boring and a little damp. We don't suffer Typhons or Hurricaines (Fish '86 excetpted. ) we don't have ice-storms or tornados bowling down our open grassy plains. No Earthquakes on the scale of elsewhere. I've noticed this because EVERY time without exception when my girlfriend. flies from America to visit, without fail the first question from everyone's lips is: "so what do you think about the weather - dreary isnt it?" I cringe inside, I don't know how she maitains a straight face anymore.

We have very mediocre weather - somethign we should cherish. (but I do this myself. I'll catch myself remarkign on how much its raining and think oh no! I'm doing it too! )

Who was it who said it is only the British Isles that have weather. Everyone else just has a climate.

It's a good point, Clive. We seem mired in Imperial measurements. I was theoretically taught kilos and meters at school, but hardly anyone uses them in England, still, 10 years later. I don't know my own height in meters, or my distance to work in Kilometers. I'm clueless for both pounds and ounces and kilos and grammes. Remember the Metric Martyr movement of grocers that wouldn't switch to Kilos? Only in England...

Logging back in to this discussion....

There's certainly no confusion in MY mind between English and British. England = what the English call Britain. Britain = What the other British nations call that Entity that includes them plus England.

I have to disagree with the Pedant. The English language doesn't just belong to the British. And here I actually mean the English. What we're taught as Standard English dosn't even work in Scotland. And I'm don't just refering to the colloquial dialect differences that are found even throughout England. In Scotland, many constructions and words are used in mainstream, educated Scots speech which are not considered Standard English. My favourite example is the word "outwith" - ubiquitous in Scotland.

But we're hardly to blame for our climate - once described as "Like living inside Tupperware."

Right: I'm off for 568ml!

of course one of the greatest problems with the British (actually, since we are from Great Britain, shouldn't we be called the Great British?) is that we have a system of political/economic/national classifications that most of the people living here don;t understand, and that the rest of the world seems to use as completely interchangeable.
Great Britain != England.
British != English.

The weather chat is not a bad British trait - it is part of what holds the society together Along with tea The reason it holds such facination is partly historical - not so long ago most people did things that relied on the weather, or worked in secondry industries to things that relied on the weather, and so it is handed down to us. This is true for most places in the world though, the reason it is so deeply engrained in the British psyche is because of the second reason.

The second reason is that though it is fairly mild - ie no massive extremes as mentioned, it is extrememly variable. Most places in the world have much more settled weather (easier to generalise), but with greater extremes. Though they are hotter, or colder they are similar over longer periods of time, and fairly easy to predict.

Well, it is my theory made up on a dark and dank Wednesday morning Until later...
BCNU - Crescent