h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

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~*~Education has become a quest for credentials and the resulting big income. One lawyer for every 320 Americans, twice as many as England and 25 times as many as Japan. Bill Gates said recently that Microsoft cannot employ US graduates because they are not well educated. (Except for the lawyers)~*~

Could you explain this better? I don't understand what you mean.

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Some schools are "diploma factories", if students simply pay tuition and show up (mostly), they get a degree and are thus "college graduates" and can then, e.g. get into law school and qualify for a high paid job. Microsoft, which really needs educated engineers (who take the "hard courses"), can't find many among the graduates. The big prescription drug companies, OTOH, really like to have ex-cheerleaders as drug salesmen calling on doctors - attractive, personable, well-dressed ("degree a plus"). Maybe these salesmen can even persuade the doctor to attend an all expense paid "seminar", typically at a posh Caribbean resort where the doctor sees the value of prescribing LOTS of expensive pills.

And don't get me started on "student athletes" - some big "football factories" have graduation rates of ZERO for athletes. One big name college quarterback had one class his last year - ballroom dancing. Ohio State University spends over $100 millon per year on athletics, and recently started allowing cheerleaders to fly on the chartered team jets - it helps cheerleader recruiting. (An old joke, "Now we need a university our football team can be proud of." Maybe they'll buy MIT.)

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~*~Space exploration. The last moon landing was 35 years ago.~*~

Yep. Fascinating place the moon; so full of rocks and dust.... It's scientific interest is absolutely unparalelled I'm sure.

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You have a point, I also grimaced when Bush said we're going to Mars (some NASA contractor must have paid big for that). Some country may get to Mars (China?), but not us, not the way NASA is headed.

The original moon landing was a great achievement for the USA, IMHO. My point is that if people think of the "space program" as an indication of America's greatness, are they talking about something decades old, or the current 16 billion dollar a year "jobs program"? Lessee, we have to keep flying the Shuttle over and over again to service the International Space Station, and we need the Station to, uh, give the Shuttle a place to go. But the Hubble Space Telescope, which has provided great scientific information, well, apparently the campaign donor NASA contractors don't see the need. Pull the plug.

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~*~Economic production. The dollar has hit alltime lows. A recent interview with the manager of a major West Coast port showed that almost everyting is coming IN (from China to Walmart, mostly), while exports are in free fall. My cars are both Hondas and my digital camera is made in Japan.~*~

I admit I know virtually nothing about economics. But isn't global economy a good thing? Does it not symbolize the first step in world government? Without all those unseemly wars of expansion I mean.

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Yes, "free trade" is considered good by most economists, who see trade barriers protecting domestic industries as a bad idea, leading to inefficiency. But to have "trade", a country needs to export goods, not just import. The US trade deficit hit a record high of 763.6 billion dollars in 2006, up from 716.7 billion dollars in 2005. I think we'll have to start exporting lawyers.

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~*~My personal opinion is that triumphalism after WWII led to a sense of entitlement. We could all just ride our wave of success to riches and wealth, no effort required.~*~

I think you may be right there; that bugs me.

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Me, too.

Cynical? Yes. Justified? We'll see.

Thank you Elentari




~*~Some schools are "diploma factories"...~*~

I see your point.

~*~The original moon landing was a great achievement for the USA, IMHO.~*~

I don't think you would deny though that it was mostly just for bragging rights and the fact that Kennedy was assassinated.

If it makes you feel better about the space station: While I don't know everything they get on to doing up there, I do know that they monitor Earth's weather patterns.

And I'm pretty sure there's going to be a new telescope installed on the moon's surface. (Even less light from Earth to get in the way.)




~*~a strange penchant for making rounders a national sport!)~*~

What are rounders? Do you mean American Football?




~*~Although they were invaluable in helping to kick the Nazis out of France in 1944-45, at first they were in no hurry to join in the war (fair enough, why should they?) and left us to see off the Luftwaffe on our own. Remember the Battle of Britain? That was all done and dusted by the time the US joined in.~*~

If you really want to get into a finger pointing match....

Remember how Britain was appeasing Hitler with everything it could until Churchill was in charge? Remember that big fleet of French ships who were going to join your side that you SUNK without provocation? Remember how even though America's armies didn't join the war, American volunteers joined yours? Remember how the Treaty of Versailles (which President Hoover staunchly opposed) nearly finished Germany off entirely, and was the biggest factor in allowing the Nazis to come to power in the first place?

There's absolutely no point in holding a grudge over any of this. It was over 60 YEARS AGO for crying out loud! Most of the people here hadn't even been born yet!




~*~If people want to willfully ignore whole paragraphs to nitpick individual sentences, then I've not got the energy to repeat myself, frankly.~*~

Wobyn, when I don't reply to the whole paragraph it's for one of two reasons.

1. The sentence sums up the paragraph quite nicely and it saves space.

2. I agree with you.

Since for some inexplicable reason you seem to take exception to this, I will now copy the whole paragraph.

~*~I DO have a problem with a country that says one thing and practices another.
When walking down the street in certain cities dressed in a certain way can get you lynched because of the small-minded self-righteousness of the communities.
When attitudes to gay people, black people and probably other 'different' sections of communities are so awful, and fairly openly so.
When saying that you dont like the president will get you ostracised because it makes you unpatriotic.
That doesn't look to me like a land of the free.~*~

Let's see, where to start.... You claim that you can be "lynched" for walking down a particular street; this hasn't happened in decades. Anywhere. In the whole, Europe sized, country.

And in my entire life I have failed to see a single instance of racism, apart from in movies, so don't even ask me where you're getting that idea from. I won't deny that gays and other minorities aren't always readily accepted. I wish it were otherwise, which is why I waste so much time arguing with people like you.

And about not liking the President. This is just flat out wrong; all kinds of people have never liked him, myself included, with numbers that are constantly growing, and it's just inconcievable that you would be ostracized for it. This is what someone thinks: "So you don't like him. Great, vote for someone else then."


~*~And dont go pretending like I'm saying that the UK is perfect, I'm not. In living memory (and currently) racism is a problem, but we are working on it. Hard. It's less and less acceptable, we are trying hard to equalise opportunities and attitudes. Whether it's working or not? It's like trying to prove evolution by taking a snapshot of the here and now, but the improvements since, say the 70s are massive.~*~

I find it interesting that YOU seem to have taken a snapshot of the U.S. in the 50's and are using that as your basis for everything.


~*~And as for what wasn't irresponsible about moving to a new land and lying to and killing it's inhabitants... What can I say... I refer you to Eddie Izzard: But WE own it now, we have a FLAG. Do you have a flag? No flag no country!~*~

You're right. Up until WWII Britain DID own Australia, Canada, New Zealand, India, Scotland, Ireland, and massive sections of Africa. It had a FLAG. Did they have flags? No flag no country!


~*~Call this what you like, but please try to understand, I dont HATE the USA.~*~

You sure sound like it.


~*~I dislike a lot of what the country as a whole (i.e. it's government and general output i.e. the media and so on) portrays and projects to the rest of the world, especially when I see it as based on deep (and recent) hypocrisy.~*~

And, as I said, that's those big corporations you're describing, not America.


~*~As for the film question... The sheer numbers of films (and TV) being written, produced, bought, sold, casted and occasionally actually MADE... well, monkeys and typewriters, frankly.~*~

Oh, boo hoo, what a blow to my ego. I'm going to go wipe my eyes off with this Oscar now.


~*~The people who 'created' america certainly did come from other cultures. People and cultures who believed they had the right to take over a country that was already inhabited... By killing those people if necessary (or convenient) simply because they called themselves civilised and considered the indiginous people uncivililsed. Hrm...~*~

That sounds remarkably like half a dozen other countries I know. Yet strangely America is the only one who ever gets blamed for it.


~*~For the record, the Russians were quicker than the US to enter the war against Nazism.

Slower than the Brits, but quicker than the US.~*~

"For the record," Britain, France, and the Soviet Union were attacked and invaded earlier.

Crikey, these huge posts are why I avoid The Forum. Please don't let them infect Ask.

oh come on, only Brit tainted specs will tell you we won the battle of britain. we were on our knees till uncle sam turned up. talk about re-writing history. only Brits could turn Dunkirk into a victory!! we have a 19th century belief that we (Brits) are worth 5 of any other fighting forces in the world..pah!!

Have you got a link to back that up?

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This was an interesting event. The British destroyed a fleet of French ships after the fall of France in 1940, resulting in a number of French deaths. Ruthless but necessary. Churchill had asked the French to hand them over to the British, or failing that to destroy the ships themselves.

The reason/provocation was that the French refused to do this, which risked letting the Germans grab them, something Churchill could not afford to allow.

Had they given them to them to us they would not have been destroyed. It was essential to prevent those ships falling into enemy hands.


<<"For the record," Britain, France, and the Soviet Union were attacked and invaded earlier.>>

Erm, you do know that Britain declared war on Germany many months before ever being attacked, don't you? When Hitler attacked Poland?

And that Britain was never actually invaded? (Like I mentioned, the RAF had already defeated the Luftwaffe by the time our American "mates" joined the war.)

The fact is that Britain and France were the only countries to stand up to the Germans when Germany and Russia invaded Poland. The French quickly capitulated, and Britain was left on its own to oppose Germany. No American involvement until it was already clear the Germans had failed to invade Britain.

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Yes, some did, and good on them.

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That's true.

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Then stop making bullsh1t films like Saving Private Ryan 60 years after the event glorifying the American role and distorting history for crying out loud!
We spent over 60 years repaying with interest what we'd borrowed from the US to finance the war. WWII bankrupted the UK in 1945. For the US it was an ecomonic godsend. They profited from it. And while they extended Marshall Aid to France and Germany, they extracted every penny from the UK (war debt paid off at last only last year). America wanted a weak Britain after WWII and they made sure they got it. Anthony Eden went cap in hand to Washington (as the representative of Attlee's post-war government), hoping to save the UK from financial disaster from the crippling cost of war, and pretty much got sent packing.

Friends? Bullsh1t! We owe the USA nothing: we've already paid in full.

I don't blame America for acting as it did in WWII. Without the US Europe would have succumbed to the Russians as they swept west. I just resent being told they are our great mates. The USA is cool in many ways, and I like Americans, but let's cut this sentimental "special relationship" nonsense and we'll be much better off. And over a hundred of our young men might not be dead in a stupid war that should never have happened.

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No. By May 1941 we had indeed won the Battle of Britain. It would be re-writing history to say otherwise.

Hitler abandoned his plans to invade Britain as a result, and his attentions turned towards Russia and operation Barbarossa. After the Battle of Britain the real war was on the Eastern Front.

Probably the greatest help the USA provided was in stopping Stalin sweeping into Western Europe after the Russians had got to Berlin.

And you expect people to read that lot? I'm sure you made some good points in there but really, life's too bloody short. Take it to the forum.

Well it's our history, and I think we have a duty to know something about our history. What's the meaning of cheering for England or Britain in rugby/football/the olympics if you don't even know the basics of your history.

Docanwot doesn't even seem to know what the Battle of Britain was.
Yes, we were on our knees, but we had inflicted the first defeat of the war on Hitler. There'd have been no D-Day and no "Saving private Ryan" without it. Something to be more proud of than winning a bloody football match.

Sorry WG, I'm making a point about the website and you've landed in the firing line.

no point in telling you that if the Germans had kept their non-aggresion pact with the Russians (which probably would have been violated at some point but the Germans had Spurs like timing) they could have kicked our asses??

whether we like it or not WG we HAVE a special reltionship with the US....we are sisters under the skin.

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The fact is they_did_keep their non-aggression pact with the Russians, up until after they'd given up on invading Britain, so I'm not sure what you're thinking really.




They tried and failed, (thanks to a large extent to the sea that surrounds us and the superiority of the Royal Navy at that time. Even if we'd lost the Battle of Britain invading would have been far from straightforward). Then they turned on Russia.

Had we not been an island, they would have kicked our asses. Had the winter not been so severe in '41/'42 they'd have defeated Russia. And eventually who knows, they may have developed the H-bomb before the USA and conquered America!

But none of this happened.

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In some ways we do have a special relationship with the US.
The funny thing is that more Americans trace their descent back to German roots than to British roots.

[The funny thing is that more Americans trace their descent back to German roots than to British roots.]


so do most brits!!

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I didn't think I'd written all that much!

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That's true, (but I meant within the last 200 years)!

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Sometimes that seems to be the way. I hate that idiotic "One world cup and two world wars" refrain. Britain didn't single-handedly win either of those wars. We won the Battle of Britain and stopped the Germans invading (ie. defended ourselves) but of course we couldn't realistically have ousted the Germans from Western Europe without US help.

And there was a Polish squadron in the RAF and many pilots from the Czechoslovakia, NZ, South Africa, Australia, Jamaica, Canada, etc... who made up "the few".

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~*~The reason/provocation was that the French refused to do this, which risked letting the Germans grab them, something Churchill could not afford to allow.

Had they given them to them to us they would not have been destroyed. It was essential to prevent those ships falling into enemy hands.~*~

I know. From a purely strategic standpoint, it was the right decision. I just don't see the point in holding people responsible for stuff that happened before they were even born.




<<"For the record," Britain, France, and the Soviet Union were attacked and invaded earlier.>>

~*~Erm, you do know that Britain declared war on Germany many months before ever being attacked, don't you? When Hitler attacked Poland?~*~

It /was/ clear at that point that he was trying to conquer the whole continent however. It seems to me it was more a matter of defense than it was of principles.

~*~And that Britain was never actually invaded? (Like I mentioned, the RAF had already defeated the Luftwaffe by the time our American "mates" joined the war.)~*~

France and the U.S.S.R. were, Britain came within a hair's breadth. I was just making a point, don't take it too seriously.




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~*~Then stop making bullsh1t films like Saving Private Ryan 60 years after the event glorifying the American role and distorting history for crying out loud!~*~

Calm down, it's just a movie. I've never seen it, so I can't say how accurate it is in any case.




~*~America wanted a weak Britain after WWII and they made sure they got it.~*~

Why would they?




~*~Friends? Bullsh1t! We owe the USA nothing: we've already paid in full.~*~

I never said you did. It is true, unfortunately, that most Americans seem to think so though; that bugs me too.




~*~I don't blame America for acting as it did in WWII. Without the US Europe would have succumbed to the Russians as they swept west. I just resent being told they are our great mates. The USA is cool in many ways, and I like Americans, but let's cut this sentimental "special relationship" nonsense and we'll be much better off. And over a hundred of our young men might not be dead in a stupid war that should never have happened.~*~

Fair enough.




~*~After the Battle of Britain the real war was on the Eastern Front.~*~

WG is right Doc. Britain held Germany off single-handed for almost two years before any pressure was taken off.


~*~Probably the greatest help the USA provided was in stopping Stalin sweeping into Western Europe after the Russians had got to Berlin.~*~

Although I would disagree with this. But whatever; it's already happened. Let the Historians figure it out.




~*~no point in telling you that if the Germans had kept their non-aggresion pact with the Russians (which probably would have been violated at some point but the Germans had Spurs like timing) they could have kicked our asses??~*~

Germany was never going to keep that treaty and Stalin knew it. That's why he was pushing so hard to build his industry. (Russia started their Industrial Revolution extremely late.) Hitler knew that the Soviet Union was gearing up for war with him, and he invaded them first with the idea that he'd be able to defeat them before they were ready.




~*~Had the winter not been so severe in '41/'42 they'd have defeated Russia. And eventually who knows, they may have developed the H-bomb before the USA and conquered America!~*~

They almost did.

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And England needed Soviet help to win the World Cup..

Heretic! How dare you besmirch England's greatest achievement!