h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well sounds less painfull than a set of camel teeth

>> Form a personal view I have seen what one person can do to another with serial adultery. It's abuse looking for an excuse.

Fair point, Jab. And one of my closest friends was at the blunt end of just such a marriage.

I guess in the same way that there are relationships that can withstand infidelity or the suspicion of infidelity, (viz the one I was in which I mentioned), there are also relationships which - because of the nature of the two people involved - cannot. I over-generalised.

Some time ago, I was having a conversation with a colleague about something - can't remember what, handing in notice on a contract or something like that - and he said "so you approve of that, do you, Ben?"

The answer was "No. It was an observation."

Jab, I wonder to what extent you are confusing, or I am not clarifying, the diference between what I observe and what I approve of.

"Serial adulterers are better it than first timers" is merely an observation. It is not an endorsement of adultery at all, and certainly not an endorsement of serial adultery. More an distinction between two situations, based on observations of the triangle from every side.

I observe. I sometimes evaluate. I rarely judge.

My criticims of Bilbobilbo are based on the easily predictable and all too likely outcome, which is pain all around with possible stew. They are not based on the morality or otherwise of his actions.

This may make me amoral, it does in itself make me immoral.

B

Ok Ok, Having brought this up again, I deserve all I get. I was not looking for approval as some think, but for comments and views on what I have done, probably because of guilt deep down.
Having read your views, I have probably decided to come to my senses as now feel really terrible about it all. my feelings for the lady wont change but I can probably muffle them and push them to somewhere in my mind that hurts less. However, I now have the predicament of just how to get back to normal and stop seeing her. I can already hear the cries of 'Should have thought of that matey' but as they say Love is blind. What if she resents being left alone by me and decides that Mrs Bilbo should Know whats been going on, she knows where I live and in fact I could walk to her house in 10 minutes. Not going to be easy is it? I've braced myself so let me have it. Bilbobilbo.

*shakes head sadly in a there-but-for-the-grace-etc sort of fashion

Um, why do I get the feeling we are all being played like a pack of fools?

Yes Hel, it occurred to me too that this might be the point when bb owned up to another bit of creative conversation stimulation.

Got to hand it to the guy - he's caused a fair old flap in the henhouse

Hel,

I also think none of it is real.

But some people will do anything for a bit of attention.


az

Ach, I'll buy it. People get in worse messes than this when their hormones are driving the bus. I have just come off the phone from a girlfriend on the other side of the equation. I know what I am talking about here.



>> my feelings for the lady wont change but I can probably muffle them and push them to somewhere in my mind that hurts less

That is certainly possible. It takes a lot of time and effort, but it can be done. I know. I've done it.



>> I now have the predicament of just how to get back to normal and stop seeing her.

Ben's "How to end a relationship gracefully 101" course...

(One of the odder conversations of my life was with my ex, who was talking about dumping a girlfriend. Actually, thinking about it, we were not technically exes at the time, which makes her not technically a girlfriend, but a co-respondant. So there you go. He said to me 'I don't want to see her any more'. I said 'I hope you are going to talk to her about it'. He said 'I haven't said anything. I am ignoring her. She'll get the message'. Yeah. Right. Of course she did.)

Rule 1 - make her feel good about herself. It isn't her it is you. You think she is wonderful, she is one of the best things that ever happened, she will always have a very special place in your memories and your heart, you will always treasure your friendship, you will always be there if she needs you.

Rule 2 - remind her that you are both adults. It was never going to have a future. You never lied to her, (you haven't, have you, bb?). She deserves more than you can give her, and her wellbeing matters to you. You are afraid of hurting her, and can only see the risk of more hurt for her if it continues. She matters too much to you for that.

Rule 3 - Leave your wife out of it *entirely*. Do not mention her name, your feelings for her, your feelings of guilt, any of those things. If she starts talking about your wife say 'I wouldn't tell anyone about my feelings for you, so I am not going to discuss my feelings for her'. Bring the discussion very gently back round to you and her.

Rule 4 - No blame. Don't say "I blame myself" (though you should). Don't blame anyone. Say "I am not prepared to talk in terms of blame" if she starts blaming your wife or herself. If she starts blaming you then say "You are so special, you have no idea how special this time has been".

Rule 5 - End it while it is good. Say "What we had was wonderful and will always be special to me. I look on it as a gift, and I hope you can look on it in the same way. But I have come to realise that it can't last, and I want to end it while it is good."

Rule 6 - Listen. Actually this should be Rules 1,2, 3 and 4. Most women think out loud, particularly about emotions. The man I would still walk across burning coals for would simply listen. He didn't offer advice. He didn't offer commentary. He didn't try to explain himself or justify the situation. He simply held me (literally or metaphorically) and listened. He knew I would talk myself out in the end, and all he had to do was wait. When women have talked themselves out, they end up where you want them most of the time, anyway. You only get into trouble when you interrupt and tell them what to do or think or feel. Just shut the f**k up and really try to understand what is going on for her. Listen.

Rule 7 - Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Summary - don't flatter, but make her feel special, make her feel good about herself, make her feel good about the relationship, and make her know that it is all in the past, but it is going to be a golden and happy memory for you.

*** Do *not* under *any* circumstance lie, bullshit or patronise her. She will detect that like aftershave before you have come into the room and sat down. ***


>> What if she resents being left alone by me and decides that Mrs Bilbo should Know whats been going on, she knows where I live and in fact I could walk to her house in 10 minutes.

Do I smell boiled ?

That is a risk you have already taken.

B

posting 140:

<>

Why should we believe him now? I think he is still just trying to wind people up on this thread - perhaps this is how he gets his kicks?


az

I remember that post.

To be honest, I neither know nor care.

The advice that is being given by Galaxy Babe, by Kaz, by me and by others, is good advice for people in bilbobilbo's situation, regardless of whether or not he is one of them.

There is so much pain caused by affairs, that anything which reduces that pain, including being take for a ride by a stray on-line mortician, seems worth the odd 15 minutes of my time to me.

B

If he has been winding everybody up again, console yourselves with the thought that the thread has given comfort and support to at least one other person and helped her to sort her head out a bit.

I cannot talk to *anybody* about what's happening to me in RL in this respect. It has been a huge relief to be able to do so here, and has put my relationships back into perspective.

Thanks all. Group

Mol

I am pleased to be able to help. (That was the point I was making).

Group Mol. And

B

Is it just me or is...

'Rule 1 - make her feel good about herself. It isn't her it is you. You think she is wonderful, she is one of the best things that ever happened, she will always have a very special place in your memories and your heart, you will always treasure your friendship, you will always be there if she needs you. '

about the least pleasant way to get dumped from a male point of view?

I've been told this twice and it was absolutely ZERO comfort, I'd have rather been told I was hated than this. If that's all true then why are you leaving? Is always the thought.

I guess it gives some insight into why women think this is what a bloke wants to hear. It's what we are supposed to do when the roles are reversed.

Catching up on the backlog and listening to the radio.

Nothing to add of any interest, not even a jibe at Della, but on the radio at the moment is:

"whose making love?
to your old lady
while you're out
making love"

>> Is it just me or is...

>> >> 'Rule 1 - make her feel good about herself. It isn't her it is you.

>> about the least pleasant way to get dumped from a male point of view?


>> I guess it gives some insight into why women think this is what a bloke wants to hear. It's what we are supposed to do when the roles are reversed.


Do you know, Orcus, I think that comment of yours is probably the most interesting in the whole thread.

Which leads me on to wonder whether blokes would prefer to be dumped in silence, by simply not saying anything at all just grunting occasionally.

BTW - I am no great expert on dumping or being dumped, my most recent relationships have ended due to force majeure. If anyone else wants to point out that I am talking bullshit, (er, cowshit?) then please do. It's a skill it would help all of us to have.

B

If I am to be dumped, I need words of comfort to fill the void. If left alone too quickly too many questions and thoughts of paranoia will start. So I agree with Bens rules, maybe dumping men is different.

I loved the rule about listening to women, that trouble only starts when you try to interrupt them! I think you need to say your all once, if you don't get that chance then, you will try to take it later, when all should now be dropped and finished.

The interest is mutual, as I said, it gave me some insight into why women seem to 'dump' in this manner.
I think there's definitely a difference between the sexes there. The last person I'd want to confide in/be comforted by is the person who's just dumped me. If that happened then it would end up confusing things. In the end, if the relationship is over then saying "I'll always be there for you" is just not true anymore so I'd rather not hear that.

I need to find a more grown up word to use than 'dump' it seems so juvenile now

.oO. .OoOo..oOoo..o..Oo. .Oooo..oOo..o..oO..OoO. .oo..ooo. .Oooo..o..ooo..O.?.

Yep, trying to understanding the language can drive you nutty!

Then again, is there one rule for all situations with this one?

No of course there isn't! There are differences already noted in the way that women want to be dumped compared with the way that men want to be dumped.

Then there are differences between ending a marriage, (a friend of mine received an email from her then husband saying 'I did love you when we got married, but it's over'), ending an affair, ending a long term relationship, and of course there is chewing your arm off so you don't wake up your one-night stand.

B

An self created set of "dump rules" would be a distraction only during any "dumping." I feel.

Though thinking about it...

Rule#1 Dealing with the classic "we'll be friends." - Yea sure, soon as you can make good on all the lies, give back all that you have stolen, time, effort, compensated for the sacrifices. Then we may be friends in as much as we are not enemies, though I would'nt piss on you even if you was on fire. - After a serious relationship.

Rule#2 Don't go to bed with a grubby girl, or if it was that easy for *you* it's that easy for *everybody* so don't be there. Don't say this is the reason for dumping, just move on... You can may hear the screams of "NEXT" from down the street anyway, so why stress about the dumpping of, worry more about accepting it's not for you. - After a non-serious relationship.

Rule#3 Rule#1 Means there is little or nothing you can do to avoid hurt, if you have a heart yourself. Rule#2 Means getting involved with somebody without a heart is foolish at best.