h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

WARNING this is not a new conversation per se (sp?), it is a continuation of another that got too long and specialized. So, I started a new one. Feel free to join in though, but don't say I didn't warn you.

How old is my guy? He just turned 20 last year.

How extensively have we talked with each other? Well, I will have known him for a year in April. The only time I saw him was at the club once a week. Since I met him, I spent most of my time while I was there talking to him. He said once that he spends seven eighths of the time he's there talking to me. It hasn't been so much since we've been "involved". (that sounds so stupid, but we're not "going out" so what else can I say?)

What are our conversations like? When I first met him I had a boyfriend, and he knew that. He didn't know that I'd been wanting to break up with said boyfriend for at least six months. He also didn't know that I was really attracted to him, or that I could tell that he liked me. So, in the beginning our conversations were very flirty. He used to say things that I can't imagine him saying now, like that I was sexy and stuff like that. I think that he was that way when I had a boyfriend, was because I was "safe" and he didn't have to worry about whether I would go out with him or not. And when I broke up with my boyfriend, he really backed off. So, I didn't know if he liked me or not, so I told him I liked him, and he said he liked me too, he was just trying to keep his distance since I just got out of a long relationship. Then he didn't call me for about four months. It wasn't that he stopped talking to me, he talked to me at the club still, but his flirtation wasn't so overt.

I'm off subject here. Our conversations are almost always about superficial things, like movies and music and weird stuff. He doesn't like to let people know what he's thinking and feeling. And he says that right out. I, on the other hand, am the kind of person who will talk about anything (as I'm sure you can see). I value communication above almost everything else. I don't mind so much him not wanting to say what he's thinking, but I wish he would ask what I'm thinking. Then I would know something about what he's worried about, and I would answer his questions so he would know what I want from all this. But, he won't ask me stuff, because he wouldn't want someone doing that to him.

Does he have any fundamentalist views? Not that I'm aware of. I'm pretty sure that he does not. I think his parents go to church, but I don't think that has any effect on his views.

If I only knew exactly what he was afraid of, everything would be fine. I don't mind bringing stuff up, but I don't know where to start.

I really appreciate you guys's (I know it's bad grammar) help, and am not annoyed by anything you have said so far.

GreyRose

I should probably address Rat's concern's (that she posted on the other forum) first. Sorry Rat, I was being contrary a day or so ago. I ment that last line (about misery and all) as, well, a tounge in cheek joke. Probably should have put the appropriate smiley on it. Guess I just wasn't thinking.

And moving in together places whole new levels of stress on a couple. Both have to be very ready for it.

GreyRose: Is he going to college, or does he have a job? Or something else entirely?

I'm not certain you could ever get away with asking this, and it doesn't sound like information he'd volunteer, but has he ever dated someone on the rebound?

Even if he hasn't, he might fear that you are on the rebound, reguardless of your feelings about your reboundedness (look at me! I can create new words!). That might be a chronic condition with guys. I'm always quite hesitant to move in (sounds cold blooded, isn't) on a woman potentially on the rebound.

He also might view you, and/or think you view him as a friend. Sounds completely retarded, but us guys are notoriously afraid of the 'but can't we be just friends' line. So afraid, that some of us will go out of the way to avoid it.

The part about him backing off might be a mis-assumption on his part. His guy friends have probably been in relationships in the past, and when they broke up with their girlfriends, he and his other friends would react by giving the person some extra space. He might just be trying to be a good friend.

The only way to overcome any of these things is to take initiative. Once taken, though, there's no turning back. It sounds like your guy is making some very typical mistakes, and, like most of us, is failing to read several signals.

-jb

Failing to read signals is right! I liked him for five months before I told him, and it was obvious. So much so that the one night my boyfriend at the time came out with me, I barely talked to my guy because my bf would have been able to tell. And the catalyst that got me to finally break up with my ex was that this nasty girl was trying to pick up my guy, but he didn't even know that was what she was doing! When I told him that I liked him he had no idea.

Yeah, he has two jobs. He works seven days a week. That was the reason he gave me for not having asked me over again. (the day he did ask me over, there had been a snowstorm so he didn't have to work) The thing is, I don't expect him to take me out or anything. I would be happy just to hang out at his place, so I can't see why him having to work would have anything to do with it. Except for his mood, but he NEVER has a day off, so am I NEVER going to get invited over again?

I don't know if he's ever dated someone on the rebound (I think he's only had like two serious girlfriends). And like I said earlier, he didn't know that I had been unsatisfied with my relationship for a long time before I met him. But, that's kind of beyond the point now. I had been broken up with my ex for about four months when my guy finally called me. And I read/saw/heard somewhere that the "get over it" time is a month for every year you were together and we were together for almost four years. So, I think he's over worrying about my state of reboundedness (good word!), however, I do agree that is probably something he was worried about.

I don't think that he views me as just a friend. At least I hope not. He doesn't seem like the type of guy to make out with his friends. In fact, his friends were amazed when they found out he kissed me. He might be afraid that I consider him just a friend (this makes me think of that Biz Markie song). But, it could be the opposite, he's worried that I like him more than he likes me. That's the whole problem, I don't know what he's worried about. I have ideas but they could go either way. And I can't seem to find a graceful way to talk to him about it, and appear just in the middle.

Which is what I am. I don't have any delusions about our future, like we're going to get married or anything. Most likely we won't. But I do like him an awful lot, more than I've liked anyone in a long time. If we go out, I don't expect him to call me everyday (in fact I would hate that), but I don't want some roller rink romance where we only see each other at the club. But, I don't know what he wants, and the only time I asked him that (about four months ago) he said he didn't know. He's obviously thought about it, since he figured out he wanted to kiss me, but if I asked him again he would probably say the same thing.

That's the whole deal. I'm not lacking initiative, no, I've got initiative out the wahzoo. But I don't know where to begin. I'm going to see him in about 31 hours, so you better think of something fast! Just kidding , but I could use all the help I can get until then. But, don't stress it, because if I don't know what to say I won't bring it up. It can wait till next week.

Seriously, though, I hope this isn't boring or annoying or stressful to you guys. If you're not enyoying yourselves helping me out with my soap opera life, just tell me to get lost. I hope you do think this is fun, because I do. As stressed out as this whole thing makes me, I'm enjoying it. I haven't felt this way since I was 16 (maybe earlier).

Oh yeah, jb, don't feel cold blooded about having to use a phrase like "move in on". I hated having to use such a sterile term as "involved". We need better words in the english language. I want a copy of The Meaning of Liff, but I haven't been able to find one yet.

I have to go home now. I'm in the way of the owner.
I'll mull things over in my head for a while, & get back to you tomorrow. Definitely within 31 hours. Rat will probably post between now and then too.
And if this conversation bored me, I wouldn't post on it.

Thats right, of course I have to comment on stuff, its what any good natured rat would do. hehe. Anyways, Greyrose, I've been reading so much about this guy and I have sadly come to the same conclusion as you: I don't have a clue. This guy is either really confused or knows what he is doing. Maybe this guy just wants what he can't have, or maybe he's a jerk and you are so obsessed(I use the term loosely) with him that you didnt notice. I don't know what to tell you, only his actions from now on can determine what will happen. Will you see this guy anytime soon? Let me know so I can advise you on how to approach the situation.

RAT

P.S.- it was kinda taking a bit long to get to my post, thanks for starting a new one!

Oops, wasnt reading close enough-so you are meeting him, what can I tell you to do but ask him what the deal is already! Tell him what you have been telling us, and don't hestitate to tell him how you feel. Thats what I would do, thinking idealistically of course. Usually what happens in any of the confrontations I have is that I start sputtering incoherent mumblings about the mold of the side of a tree. Don't do that. Things get mighty awkward, and said guy may think you are more insane than he possibly imagined, and may report you to a local mental institution, where your next boyfriend may end up being an imaginary friend named no one who..

Whoa, this getting way to personal here!

rat

I think that he's confused. If he's not, then he's a really good actor, because none of his friends know why he's like this either. Everyone is just like, "that's just the way he is", but they can't tell me why.

I would tell him everything I've told you guys, but I don't know how he would respond. If he's worried that he likes me more than I like him, telling him everything would be fine. But if he thinks that I like him more than he likes me, it would be very bad. But, I don't know what he thinks.

Here's a question in a lighter vein. What do you think would be more attractive to a goth boy; parachute pants with a corset and lots of cleavage, or a very short black velvet dress with white lace trim? I think that would like either one, but I can't decide. What about you jb? If you were a skinny goth boy which would you prefer?

Rat, have you ever seen a movie with Johnny Depp in it called Dead Man? I only mention it because his character has a friend called Nobody. If you haven't seen it, I highly reccomend it.

GreyRose

And don't worry about calling me obsessed, that is exactly what I am. But it's a healthy level of obsession.

Hi folks! Sorry about the long silence but my employer has decided to block web access to h2g2! They must have noticed how much time I was spending here. That means I'll only be able to read it from home. Dammit!

Ah well, now that I'm here...

GreyRose, I have a suggestion, based on past experience of being a young, relatively inexperienced male. Maybe he's so amazed that an attractive, friendly, interesting girl likes him that he's terrified to push it in case it all turns out to be a mistake. Okay, that sounds really flirtatious and frivolous but I'm serious. I have a female friend who is currently having problems with her relationship. We really like each other and we've communicated that fact to each other but if she breaks up with her bf then I don't know whether I would run to her arms or head for the hills. Considering my recent history and the fact that I'm amazed she *likes* me, possibly the latter. It really depends on his opinion of himself and you. Does he think you're too good for him?

Okay, so it's a theory based purely on the few facts you've given us and a lot of guess work. So sue me

Whatever the reason, you guys really need to talk. It'd be really sad if a wonderful relationship failed to blossom because neither of you knows how strongly the other feels. Take it slowly and let him know how you feel before asking for his input, that way he doesn't think that "how do you feel?" is a trick question. Let him know that you're not trying to pressure him into anything, you just want to avoid any awkwardness because you really like hanging out with him. I'm not just making this up, btw, I had this conversation with the above-mentioned friend and it made things *so* much better. Now we each know exactly where the other stands.

Musings on a warm evening

Hey Rat, you've never given us an update on your situation with your ex (or iodine). 'Fess up!

Oi! You slipped that in when I wasn't looking, GreyRose!

If it were me I'd go for the cleavage outfit but then I'm very much a breast man I suspect a goth boy would probably go for the black velvet.

I've seen Dead Man and I loved. The atmosphere was fantastic.

Thanks for sticking with us, Oz.

I feel exactly the same way as you do about your friend. I can't believe that he likes me. He is devestatingly good looking and could go out with just about any girl he wanted. I don't like him just because he's beautiful, he's funny and smart (except when it comes to girls) and can hold a job, but he is hot. His looks are the one thing that makes me wonder why he likes me. The funny thing is that I didn't even notice how cute he was until I spent a considerable amount of time talking to him.

I really want to talk to him about everything, but he won't tell me anything. He's a great listener, but it's impossible to get him to say anything about his feelings. You should have heard the conversation when I told him that I liked him, neither one of us would say it right out. It was really funny.

What else do you, Ozmzan, think could be bothering him? What you said makes sense, but since I think that way about him, I'm having a hard time believing that.

I don't know if he would like the velvet better or not. The first time I wore the corset, he was speechless. You know how in sitcoms and romantic comedies the guy is all talking and notices what the chick is wearing and whatever he's saying kind of drops off? That is exactly what he did. Twice. We'll have to see what Rat and jb have to say about it. I still have 22 hours to decide.

GreyRose

Yeah, Rat, what's going on with your friend-boys?

Well greyrose, up till this point i really haven't given you any input on this matter (pretty much because odds are i would only make things worse). But a curious though wondered through my head (have to lock it up better in the future)... why not let you guy read these forums ? Or if you don't want him to know about them so taht you can discuss your thoughts in saftey copy the text from these forums and print them out and let him read it. I belive that it will get the point across very well, and the way you have been writing i doubt that he will misunderstand you intentions, just make sure you let him read it all before you talk to him about it. Then again it may be a bit too direct...
Well either way just an idea that came up....
afraid i have no advice for you in terms of what to wear (don't pay much attention to clothing most of the time anyway)
I wish you luck with your guy, and while i'm at it i wish him luck in dealing with this as well

>If he's worried that he likes me more than I like him, telling him everything would be fine. But if he thinks that I like him more than he likes me, it would be very bad. But, I don't know what he thinks.
>

I'm jumping in a bit late here. I did read some of the other thread, as well as this one. Hope I'm not totally out of line. I just can't help but notice what is probably the most frustrating conundrum of becoming more and more attracted to someone. In my case that is "What is she thinking?"

What happens is there basically comes a point where you just have to break down and admit what you're feeling and find out where you stand. This is a very risky move! But you have to decide whether the possible reward outweighs the possible risk. The risk is, of course, that if this kind of admission is not met with similar feelings from the other person, you might end up with a really awkward sort of friendship that deteriorates from where it already was. Will you risk that awkward situation in return for the possibility that you *are* thinking the same things and all the fun stuff that might bring? This is the question you must answer for yourself.

I can't tell quite how close friends you've become. My impression is that you have more to gain than you do to lose. Admit what you're feeling and see what happens territory. If this guy really hasn't been in that many relationships, he could rather easily suffer from the "There's no way this girl likes me" lack of confidence. (That's what still happens to me. I've managed to prove it wrong a couple times, at least for a while. ) If that is the case the outcome will be what you want.

Not that I should be giving any advice about this stuff.

Okay, I will make this short for now, considaring i am at Iodine's house right now and he will kill me if I take too long. Okay, pretty much I have failed at every attempt to understand Iodine and its kinda sad, since he is a good friend of mine and he will discuss nothing with me. It is really frustrating. I will discuss whats going on with my ex later, since I don't want my friends to get frustrated as this will take up time and space, since a lot has occurred.
Both outfits sound good, Greyrose, and I was going to suggest what Iodine did, to show him the postings on h2g2 and stuff. I am will see about that movie, also, since I have this ongoing joke about my friend nobody. Heh. I will be on later aa my friends are speaking russian and not letting me know what they may be plotting, I think they may kill me now.

RAT

Be back soon

CrazyOne- You've brought up a good point, what have I got to lose? I don't know. He already knows that I like him, and I know that does/did like me at one time. We both were attracted to each other pretty much from the start, so this isn't like he's a good freind that I've recently become attracted to. So, I wouldn't be losing a close friend if we don't hook up and things get all weird between us. What I'm worried about is saying the wrong thing and scaring him away and ruining what could be a really good thing.

If he's wondering what I'm thinking, he should ask. But he won't, because he wouldn't like someone doing that to him. But I just thought of something. One time, I told him I was upset about something (it wasn't something he did) but wouldn't tell him what it was, and he kept bugging me about it until I told him. Do you (everyone) think that strategy might work here?

iodine- I have thought about writing whatever I want to tell him. That way he wouldn't feel pressured to respond right away. But, the big drawback is that someone else could find something written on paper, and I wouldn't want his friends (one in particular) to read it.
And, there's still the fact that I don't know what to say.

Don't think that you make things worse with your input. Anything that anyone has to say is helpful, even if it's a completely different opinion than everyone else's. Especially if it's different, because when making a decision one should look at their problem from all sides. So even if whoever is looking for advice doesn't take yours, it still helps them figure things out.

Rat- Don't worry too much about your communication problems with Iodine. You guys are still young and have lots of time to learn how to communicate. (Please don't take offense at me calling you guys young, even though I'm only four years older than you. I suffer from having-done-too-much-much-too-young-making-me-feel-older-than-I-am syndrome.)

You must see Dead Man. It's a beautiful film (I'm sure Ozman will back me up here).

So far in the campaign for which outfit I wear tonight, the corset is in the lead with one vote. And I have two undecided (thanks for nothing guys! ). I'm waiting on you, jb. You will probably be the deciding vote here. (Unless anyone else has an opinion, feel free to cast your vote.) But, you better hurry, the polls close in 9 hours.

Okay, really quickly (I gotta go to work - humph),

Yep, I'd agree that Dead Man is beautiful. That's a good word for it. Beautiful, gentle and *very* moving.

About what to wear:if The Boy has been made speechless by the corset then I think that's *two* votes

I don't know that simply printing out your h2g2 posts and giving them to him is a good idea. Maybe use them as a basis for a letter specifically written for him but the way you write should be more personal (and probably more subtle )

Ho hum, off to work. See you tonight! There'd better be some Rat Tales here by the time I get back!

Whew! Just got back from a great game of paddleball. Anyway, let me see. I really dont want to start the long story about my ex, but I feel I should since when I get home I will be recieving a phone call from him and I want to tell you whats happening so far to keep you in anticipation.
Okay, where do I start. I went out with this guy for like eight months(7.5 actually) and I broke up with him pretty much because I was being an idiot and I started fights with him, taking out my anger on him and stuff. Of course he is not the nicest person or the clearest person in the world(Iodine will agree with me on this.) Anyway, I (go away Iodine-wish I was at my house-it scares me that he will read this) sorta regreted it and I have been so depressed cause I realized instead of working on things I just gave up. Now its like four months later and about sometime around Jan.18 he told me that he was thinking about us and what kind of relationship he wants to have wiht me. I have told him that I am interested in him(going out again) but only if things change, if I make an effort to correct my problems he has to too. I am not sure if its such a good idea to go out with an ex, but he is my best friend. Also, I am a senior in high school, soon I will graduate and meet new people, I know I am still young, I will be eighteen in March(yeah) and maybe its not worth it but I am still obsessed, and in love wiht him. Its taken my a long time to admit it, and a lot of unnecessary anger, but I have realized what I have done.

Okay, Iodine is starting to worry that I am typing stuff like we are in love(he and I) so I will continue this later, as this is his computer. I will also explain this in greater detail, as i have left a lot out. Lets just say I asked him what he thinks we should do about our relationship, and now he said he will call me today. God I am so damn scared! At least now I can share with you his response so either you can cheer me up or yell at me for making a huge mistake.

And now I will do what Iodine is so scared that I will do.
My secret confession is that I loove him. Yes, world, I want to have like millions of his babies and I want to move in with him and -oh god hes com;ilngahashahkh

I honestly can't say what you should wear. I think they would both be excellent choices. The black velvet dress emphasizes mystery (with a lot of exposed flesh, it sounds like) & the corset sounds like it's already been able to do the job you're looking for it to do.

I was going to suggest that you throw away a few (hundred?) thousand years of evolution away & just carry a large wooden club to your next meeting, and if he puts up any resistance, knock him out & drag him home by the hair.

Hmm. More diplomatic, perhaps, would be uhmm... something else.

Did you have any preference to who asks who out? Did you want to ask him, did you want him to ask you, or did you want to arrive at the decision mutually? Are you prepared to ask him if you have to? Can you manuver the conversation to your favor?

Best of luck, GreyRose.

-jb

Typical of me to take an hour and a half to compose a post, and meanwhile everyone else posts. Ah, well... I had customers.

Rat: very interesting & funny!

GreyRose: I flipped a coin and it came out heads, which was the corset. Coins never lie (unless you ask them questions that they can lie about).