h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

warner:
>>And don't forget that if mankind did not have these major faiths in God Almighty, we would very likely be extinct, by now, by our own injustice and folly.

See...I don't understand at all why you think this. Are you saying that religion and *only* religion prevents injustice and folly? Or would you accept that at least *some* Atheists can, for non-religious reasons, be equally opposed to injustice and folly?

(and let's leave aside for now the added complication of unjust and foolish religions).

Gif
>>doesn't appear on the map at all between 300 BC and 100 AD.<<
Yeah, you're probably right, I won't bother to check; the same conclusions I've indicated could be reached.

>>we would very likely be extinct, by now, by our own injustice and folly.
Where did you get that idea from?<<
Well, we'll never know, will we, because God HAS caused us to have Divine guidance (or according to atheists people erroneously believe).

One thing's for certain, we'll see what's going to happen in the next ten years, assuming we're still alive to see it. All I'm doing is conveying my last 30 years of religious learning to others. It might come in useful to someone, to help be prepared for what looks like quite a difficult era ahead. I'm sorry I've got no money to give, just what I'm contributing to the h2g2 site.
Peace

Hi Gif,

>>large cities tend to have high proportions of atheists.
>Inner city areas, as I've previously alluded to, tend to be bastions of faith in this country.

Hmm. But don't large cities tend to be the ones with inner city areas?

You see both of these things. Big cities have the Universities and education is associated with reality (usually) and cities are also where the wealth is, with the same association.
The poverty in big cities is concentrated into the rotten inner core. Hopelessness turns people in desperation to religion.
Also, immigrants tend to be more religious than the mainstream and immigrants are forced by economics or by racist culture into the inner cities. Homesickness in an alien culture will tend to make people band together around a common religion.

warner

if it wasn't for evolution, how did that small handful of animals that came off the ark diversify into all the wonderful species that we have now

Noah didn't have 2 kangaroos on the ark did he???

so that MUST be proof of evolution

unless God has been making other creatures since, in which case, genesis got it wrong and it took him longer than 6 days and a day off to make all the animals on the earth

Ed,
>>Are you saying that religion and *only* religion prevents injustice and folly?<<
No, I'm not. But I AM saying that if you study the history of mankind's conflicts and empire building etc, you will see that if mankind goes unchecked without some sort of moral law/code, it becomes unjust (Very much like the path the Romans were on, morally bankrupt, violent and 'life was cheap'). There is no coincidence behind the modern world's emergence from ignorance and darkness. There is a civilised system/systems behind it.

Empires rise and fall, and always will, whatever they're based on. This is mankind's imperfection, not God's.

But, as you know according to Abrahamic faiths, 'a final showdown' is a special time of mankind's destiny. There is much bad (war, famine etc.) but also much good to come from it.
ie. Justice for those that survive. Nobody will feel 'hard done by', you won't find anybody who needs charity. People will be happy and have all of their needs all over tha world.
Peace

'if mankind goes unchecked without some sort of moral law/code, it becomes unjust '

Like the moral law/codes which ruled Europe under the Medieval Catholic Church, Saudi Arabia under the Wahabis or Afghanistan under the Taliban.

warner, for all your years of religious study, you betray a shocking lack of knowledge. When it isn't offensive (rare moments) it's embarrassing, frankly.

<< you will see that if mankind goes unchecked without some sort of moral law/code, it becomes unjust >>

and suicide bombers are just in what way.......????

And setting fire to buildings because cartoons are considered offensive?

And mocking up other cartoons and photographs to 'stoke the fire' as well?

Hi Warner,

>One thing's for certain, we'll see what's going to happen in the next ten years, assuming we're still alive to see it.

Well, yes...

And?

Are you saying you already know what will happen in the future?

Care to share?

If you're wrong, would that affect your beliefs?

>There is no coincidence behind the modern world's emergence from ignorance and darkness. There is a civilised system/systems behind it.

Indeed. It is called 'The Enlightenment'.

Gif

warner:
>>But I AM saying that if you study the history of mankind's conflicts and empire building etc, you will see that if mankind goes unchecked without some sort of moral law/code, it becomes unjust

I'd wholeheartedly agree with that. But what I'm saying is that laws and morality are possible without religion. In fact...they're *better* without the confusion and constraint added by religion.

Do you see?

>(Very much like the path the Romans were on, morally bankrupt, violent and 'life was cheap')

Do some research warner. The Romans had a highly developed law code and were very moral people. For instance, they didn't stone people to death for saying 'That fish was fit for Jehovah'

Their empire lasted for a very long time, much longer than the Brit one for instance. And they did it all with a poytheistic pagan religion.

The collapse didn't happen until the Christians took over and gave up on this world. There's a reason that Gibbon is on the index of prohibited books.

warner:

Have you heard of 'The Drunkard's Paradox'?

A drunk man drops his car keys on a night-time street. He searches for them under the streetlight. There's no point searching anywhere else, because if they're not under the streetlight, he'll never see them in the dark anyway.



It seems to me that you have an urge to warn of the impending apocalypse. It may have become apparent to you that you're on a hiding to nothing with the cynical, godless fools in this thread. If you really want to make a difference...might you not be more effective if you expend your energy with a more receptive audience?

Just a suggestion.

Didn't know the RC had a problem with philatelists.

seriously though - what is the book to which you refer?

Very good points about Rome, Tumsup. It's too bad that more people don't take the time to read Gibbon. Not only is he very informative, he's a ripping good writer.

I think warner's concept of Roman morality is derived from the film Caligula. What is ignored is that Caligula was only in power for a few years and for a portion of it he was quite a sane, good ruler. It's sad when historical ignorance tars a civilization that lasted well over two two thousand years with the sins of a few years of one man's life.

Gibbon's online:
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/25717

Maybe we should start a new thread:

'What's your favourite passage from Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (unabridged edition)'




except, I'd want to include his 'Memoirs' as well.

>seriously though - what is the book to which you refer?<

I was referring to "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' In it Gibbon makes the point that the decline was mostly through the superstitious stupidity of the Christian Emperors. Instead of trying to save the world they just gave up on it. Jesus is coming soon! (hint here warner)

Gibbon's view exactly contradicted the Church view so, since they couldn't fault his impeccable scholarship (hint here too) they just banned him.

Tumsup"Their empire lasted for a very long time, much longer than the Brit one for instance. And they did it all with a poytheistic pagan religion.

The collapse didn't happen until the Christians took over and gave up on this world. "

It was helped along the way by Emporer Constantine converting to Christianity in 313AD. Over the next 100years 90% of the Roman empire had 'converted' to Christianity.

If Constantine had not been successful against many of his rivals tehre would have been a good chance Christianity, like many other previous religions, would have died out.

Somewhat ironic that the Christians have the Romans to 'thank' for crucifying their saviour and then 300years later thank a Roman Emporer for saving the religion from disappearing.

>Not only is he very informative, he's a ripping good writer.<

At first I had trouble with his eighteenth century style but kept at it and insensibly I began to esteem his considerable talents as a scrivener.