A Conversation for Ask h2g2
the God Delusion thread
pocketprincess Posted Dec 10, 2008
From the "what news story..." thread:
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/Oddities/081209/K120906AU.html
Where's Jesus when you need him?
the God Delusion thread
michae1 Posted Dec 11, 2008
You have to admit, this world would be a poorer place without christianity...for example, we wouldn't have such phrases as "Thither bend our joyful footsteps."
mikey2
the God Delusion thread
IctoanAWEWawi Posted Dec 11, 2008
I'm not convinced y'know, I think the breadth of human ramanticism and creativity would be able to assemble those 5 words in that order with or without a particular religion. The person who wrote them clearly had a creative bent for music and would have found inspiration with or without that particular religion. That's assuming that Wade actually wrote them, which is not certain.
It's a bit like the argument that christianity gave us wonderful buildings and wonderful art. The creators of said art and architecture may well have been inspired in the type of building or picture by the religion but their actual creativity was a part of them not a part of the religion and thus would have been inspired by something else. OTOH without religion who knows what other creatives would have created had they not been persecuted by the church and stopped before they had a chance.
the God Delusion thread
Giford Posted Dec 11, 2008
I would have to say I'm fairly undecided on this issue. Perhaps religion (and presumably other things such as love) can inspire some people to transcend their usual talents, or at the very least inspire them to artistic expression that they would not otherwise have made.
On the other hand, religion has not always been a friend to the arts either. At its worst, it can be censorious - Bowdler may be the funniest example, but he's by no means the most successful. (Ironically, the worst examples are of the religious against religious art - Bamiyan, Angkor Wat, Karnak... I could go on for hours about artistic masterpieces desecrated for religious reasons.)
And then just to muddy the waters further you get characters like Vaughn Williams, who wrote some wonderful hymns and other religious music - and was a lifelong atheist.
Gif
the God Delusion thread
Alfster Posted Dec 11, 2008
Hmmm, without Christianity we would have been much further into scientific knowledge than we have been. When the power of religion is able to put Galileo under house arrest for saying that the Earth was not the centre of the universe just think of how many other discoveries people made that they kept quiet because they were scared of arrest, imprisonment or death.
Even Darwin kept his theories of Evolution quiet due to what religious people might say about it.
And you say the world should thank Christianity for some 17th Century translation of a Hebrew text for a few phrases.
Shakespeare has his fair few lines as well.
the God Delusion thread
badger party tony party green party Posted Dec 12, 2008
Oh dear a what a blinkered view of history you must have to say that Religion is a benefit because of the art it has inspired.
Those who say it are as hopelessly blinkered as those who say we should thank religion for medicine, communism for the AK47 or even slavery for the blues.
The outcomes were never there intended purpose and in many respects each happened inspite of the efforts of the systems that spawned them. Moreover as other have correctly identified religion like other controlling systems tried to allow only for what it wanted to happen and squash anything it did not like. Who is to say that our cultural life would not have been much richer without it or would not have been exactly the same had some other controlling influence been in power?
the God Delusion thread
anhaga Posted Dec 12, 2008
I just thank goodness for the religious people of the world, because atheists never do anything to help others:
'in the end, it was me who had to deal with the grief. Not God.
An important part of my recovery process has been in honoring Eric and in keeping my promise to him that the world would know who he was. I donated the entire sum of money given to me from The Challenger Fund to Eric's favorite museum, the Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center. Every year a full scholarship is awarded to a deserving high school student to attend the Future Astronaut Training Program. A magnificent display has been set up to honor Eric.
Additional money has been donated to Eric's alma mater, where another display has been erected in his memory. I set up a program at the burn center where Eric was a patient. The Eric Basket Program is designed to help burn victims and their families. I have given several speeches in honor of burn patients and survivors.
I have tried to heal myself by performing various charity works in my own little town: Meals on Wheels, wildlife rehabilitating, conservation work, donating money and items for homeless people. One of the ways I have found to fight grief is by helping others.'
https://webmail.telus.net/telusbeta/driver?nimlet=showcanvas
It would have been so much better if she had just accepted that her dead husband was in a better place and gone on with her life, perhaps remarrying and popping out a half dozen more children instead of all that good work she did.
end of sarcastic rant
the God Delusion thread
anhaga Posted Dec 12, 2008
well, that was an annoyingly bad link. here's the right one: http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2007/01/grief_without_g.html
the God Delusion thread
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Dec 12, 2008
Another example of the suppression of freedom of belief?:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/dec/12/schools-christmas
the God Delusion thread
badger party tony party green party Posted Dec 13, 2008
I like being human, even with the problems it's still ace.
I was working as a play worker in a school that was having trouble with some ofthe boys at play times. For all the trouble they had with the love of rough and tumble inherent in most boys of that age coupled with their belligerent attitudes brought in from home the bigges problem was very surprising.
The "cock" of the school (and I mean that in a variety of ways) was a year6 boy who regularly through a paddy if he couldnt do exactly as he pleased.
One day after excluduing him from games for repeatedly being obnoxious inhis attitude and physically bullying the other kids he's doing his usual trick of standing behind me while I supervise the other childrens' games and trying to get a rise out of me by taunting me.
Me being the argumentative soul I am and knowing that while he's having ago at me he was not off causing problems anywhere else engaged with him.
"It's not fair you always let them have a game, you're racist"
"Half my family are as black as you are and they dont think Im racist. The reason they always get a game and you only sometimes do is that you only follow the rules sometimes and they follow them all the time.
"I dont care you are racist and God will judge you"
"Yeah well I d be worried about that if there was a God but there isnt. So for now lets just stick witht eh school's rules"
I felt a kick in the calf and turned round to breifly see an andgry, tearful face before he fell into a sobbing heap. He ended up coplaining tot he head who came to ask me about and when I confirmed his story she actually asked me to apologise to him.
"What am I apologising for?"
"Oh I see" came the subdued an slightly startled response. Im not sure whether she expected me to recant what Id said or if she thought Id said it dilliberatley to upset the lad. There was no further action.
I started the job wearing "happy" colours in the hope sofetining my image and making it easier to engage in a thoughtful dialogue soon switched to "strong" colours in an attempt to visually impose my position on the more unruly kids. It turns out that the usual things like being a foot taller than them, wearing shorts come sun, rain or snow hadnt set me out as an authority on sports and as a strong arbiter of rules, but to a lot them not believing in Allah, Jah or God suddenly meant I was a wild man in league with the devil who you had to be very cautious of
My atheism did the trick though more than anything else I had said to them. For a lot of them the rules of school (secularism) were subserviant to the rules they were used to their traditions and the "If someon hits you, you hit 'em back" eye-for-an-eye claptrap they learnt at home. NOw tey knew never to come to me with the usual "my mom/dad said" attitudes because they knew I didnt even let the bigG have a say in what happened in the playground.
I think there is a lesson for wider sociey in this but as we have seen before its much easier to close bible and put it to one side but getting through the morass of cultural and traditional obstacles it has left behind is a different story.
the God Delusion thread
michae1 Posted Dec 14, 2008
Ho ho, luvvit.
Wait a mo, Gif, that's 'cherry picking', I thought we weren't allowed to do that!! And besides, this isn't the season for cherry picking...it's the season for 'peas and goodwill'!
Seasons greenthings to you.
mikey2
the God Delusion thread
Giford Posted Dec 15, 2008
Hi Mikey,
Indeed. Exactly.
More peas for me, please.
Gif
PS: It's the turkey that gets seasoned, not the green things
Yes, we have no god.
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Dec 16, 2008
Apparantly bananas are 'The Atheist's Nightmare'.
http://ims.truepath.com/atheist.html
Yes, we have no god.
Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic. Posted Dec 16, 2008
This is verbatim 'way of the master' 101.
Witness Ray 'banana-man' Comfort makes the implausible hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4
Yes, we have no god.
IctoanAWEWawi Posted Dec 16, 2008
depends what they are proposing to do with it...
I do like the banana argument. Not least because the modern banana is designed - by humans.
Key: Complain about this post
the God Delusion thread
- 13941: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Dec 10, 2008)
- 13942: pocketprincess (Dec 10, 2008)
- 13943: michae1 (Dec 11, 2008)
- 13944: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Dec 11, 2008)
- 13945: IctoanAWEWawi (Dec 11, 2008)
- 13946: Giford (Dec 11, 2008)
- 13947: Alfster (Dec 11, 2008)
- 13948: michae1 (Dec 11, 2008)
- 13949: Giford (Dec 12, 2008)
- 13950: badger party tony party green party (Dec 12, 2008)
- 13951: anhaga (Dec 12, 2008)
- 13952: anhaga (Dec 12, 2008)
- 13953: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Dec 12, 2008)
- 13954: badger party tony party green party (Dec 13, 2008)
- 13955: michae1 (Dec 14, 2008)
- 13956: Giford (Dec 15, 2008)
- 13957: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Dec 16, 2008)
- 13958: Clive the flying ostrich: Amateur Polymath | Chief Heretic. (Dec 16, 2008)
- 13959: IctoanAWEWawi (Dec 16, 2008)
- 13960: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Dec 16, 2008)
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