h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

So, what you seem to be saying is that heroin users are more morally compromised than nicotine users?

Well, we both know it's more complex than that. It's a combination of availability, social acceptability, employment status, criminality generally (heroin users have been known to be more criminal than nicotine users - but, again sometimes victims of their own circumstances).

This all comes down to the legal/illegal debate, which started this thread. I favour legalisation myself.

On the addiction front, I find it telling that you've kicked heroin, but can't kick the fags. Kinda makes the point, doesn't it?

You make a valid point of the kicking heroin but not nicotine but heroin was ruining my life. I woke up everyday suffering withwithdrawals n had had to find a new way way to find my money for heroin. Nothing else mattered when i was using. It totally ruled my life fe whereas nicotine i go for long periods without having a smoke n i don't think about it at all.

If i didn't stop abusing heroin i would've ve lost my girlfriend, my house, be sent to court for unpaid bills, lost all my friends n family. Nicotine hasn't done that sort of damage so quickly. I was addicted to heroin within three weeks of use.

Employment status is immaterial. I had a high powered job when i used to pay for the heroin butbut had to give up cus of the abuse. Heroin addiction ion is a full time job no question about that.

Nicotine doesn't give you pysical withdrawals to the stage where you would sell your soul for some does it? Heroin does.

Try packing in the fags, then.

How long after stopping taking heroin did you still get cravings?

I'm not sure what you mean there. You mean physical or mentally?

I stopped using heroin n went to rehab where i had wid withdrawals for 2 weeks n didn't sleep for 9 nights.

I still get cravings now for heroin if anything bad happens in my life. I know an ex addict where he hasn't used for 20 years n still gets the odd day where he wants some.

What i do know if its legal is you will still suffer from withdrawal n you won't be able to function to work n also you have to make sure you geu get to the doctors in time for me for your dose twe twice a day. I've not got tot the facts at hand but i've read somewhere that addicts who recieve the their heroin (diamorphine) from legalised sources still get it illegally cus the they can't wait for their next dose so unless a doctor will keep giving you all day everyday then there will always be a black market for it.

As for smoking well i spose i could i've neve never thought about quitting. I can't say whether i enjoy it or not. I smoke after meals n if i have a coffee.
I don't go ano anywhere near pubs cus if i do i smoke constantly.

You say you've quit Reddy Freddy (well done!) Do you find it hard to go in pubs without smoking?

I quit the fags 2 years ago...I don't mind going to pubs, hanging out with people who smoke etc. I stopped, and I know why. I always said to myself, "I'll only stop smoking once", and when the time came to do so, I did.

2 years on, I still get occasional dreams about smoking (how insidious is *that*? my subconscious still wants a fag!) I just have to say "HEY! SUBCONSCIOUS! F*CK OFF OUTTA HERE!"

Yes the using dreams i know all about them

You must be a very strong person to hang around smokers. Are you one of these ex smokers where where you preach to the smokers saying you hate the smell n tell them not to blow it in your face?



I heard somewhere that passive smoking is just as bad for you as smoking is but i could be completely wrong ong so don't qut quote me on that!

No, i'm cool about hanging out with other smokers, I don't preach(unless they raise the subject themselves ), even then all I tell them is how I did it, if they're interested, I point them in the same direction.

So how did you manage to stop if you don't mind me asking? I'll understand if thats too personal for you to answer

It's like playing Mornington Crescent...

I did it the hard way. Cold turkey. I do not believe that, if you're trying to kick a highly addictive drug, the best method to do so is to change the delivery method. Which is what Government advice, and adverts by companies with vested interests in you remaining addicted to nicotine, advocate.

It's simple, really. You stop buying cigarettes. You stop putting them in your mouth. And you stop setting fire to the end of them.

And for a mere £7.99 or thereabouts, go to your local bookshop, and buy a copy of a book called "The Allen Carr Easy Way To Stop Smoking". It'll cost you less than a couple of days' worth of fags, or patches. Read it from cover to cover, puffing away (as the author recommends you do).

Some people are more prone to addiciton than others - whether or not they also find it harder to quit some addicitons than others, I don't know. I agree with the earlier posting about needing to look at education & society as a whole to enable vulnerable people to cope with their lives better generally. Isn't it often a downward spiral of drug dependency, poor self-esteem, loss of home/employment?

I don't follow the argument that making drugs legal would stop crime. If people steal to fund their habit now, they're still not going to be able to afford legal drugs.

Speaking with some experience of the police (various family members are coppers) the problem most of them have with drugs is the accosiated crime i.e. from people funding their habits, legalising all drugs wouldn't stop this in fact if drugs are more widely available (which if they are legally sold i think it is fair to assume they would be) it's quite possible that the accosiated crime would rise. I think there are certainly reasons for legalizing cannabis and possibly ecstacy although i don't know anything about the effects of ecstacy so i am prepared to be wrong. As as far as i see it and have experience form friends it is in the interest of dealers to have people addicted so form their point of view they would rather move people onto harder drugs, so therefore if weed were available legally users would have less exposure to hard drugs.

However i think the best approach rather than legalising might be a better approach to dealing with drug use, sending people to jail for possesion etc is not going to help, rehab counselling etc would be far better as if you can trat the addiction you can cut the chance of re-using and in the long term reduce the costs to society.

Anyway this is all just my opinions so feel free to pick them apart.

Yes the link between drugs and crime is interesting.

Growing up in Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s, "the troubles" accounted for most of the crime and violence, and associated illegal activities (racketeering, protection money etc). There wasnt a big drug problem, and rates of "normal" crime were lower than in the rest of the UK.

Guess what's happened now?

If drugs were available legally e.g across the counter in a chemists, I suppose people might just go straight for stealing from the shop instead of stealing goods/money to raise funds.

Isn't it a fallacy that using cannabis/ecstacy leads on to harder stuff?

it is a fallaacy in the sense that using one drug makes you want to try something harder, but in the terms i was talking abouth their is a link in the sense that it is in the interst of the suppliers to move users to more addicitve and therefore more profitable drugs, however this is not backed up by any in depth research so i am prepard to be proved wrong.

I think the theory is that you become acclimatised to a drug & no longer get the same kick from it & therefore move onto something stronger. In practice I think there are other factors involved - someone who is a casual user with a comfortable lifestyle is less likely to be lured into going further.

Of course as you say, it's in a dealer's interests to promote addiction & sales. They probably target the more vulnerable members of society.

About the gateway theory here is my .

I reckon the people who are prepared to take a risk for a kick are curious about these sorts of things to some degree. So that when they are azlready enamoured in soft drug culture (Es and Cannabis) then some of them will try Crack and Heroin. The fact of the matter though is the vast majority do not. It is like saying trying a pint leads to Alcoholism it might for a few but the majority will use it sensibly.

well this is the thing really life is far more complicated than all these theories allow for.

Some will try harder drugd for the thrill
Some will from pressure from ther dealers
Some will due to using the *buzz* form lesser (and i hesitate to use that term) drugs
And some people won't move on.

But simply legalising drugs won't change any of the above.

I dont think Northern Ireland is a fair comparison for anywhere much given the strained relations between police and the public and the existence of paramilitaries dispensing justice the region was bound to have lower visible crime and reported crime rates.

By making drugs illegal we automaticaly make otherwise upstanding citizens into criminals. Now most of the drug users I know dont indulge in other crimes more than the rest of the people I know. However it sets a dangerous precident in peoples lives, if they continue to use they will always be on the wrong side of the law. For some this will diminish their will to stay within the law in other areas. Sure there are those with expensive habits who steal to buy their drugs but that is not the whole picture. My best friend has toked day in and day out for the last 14 years and I dont know a more decent person.

An ex-girlfriend of mine had at one point a £500 a week coke habit. She had a decent income from where we worked, savings and worked as a dancer in clubs aswell. She would deal to her friends and people in the clubs. Which is why her habit got so big and partly financed the amount she used. She never robbed anyone at knifepoint or burgleed anyones house though I know people who have done this too.

I think people who are criminals but dont do drugs and criminals who do drugs are no better or worse. There will be people who are aclcoholics who would be criminals if it werent for the fact that their habit is legal and cheaper and has less of a stigma attached to it.

It depends on your boss but if you work in a school say and nip out for a pint with the other teachers at lunch time, who cares but if your caught smoking a joint you're probably going to be out of a job. (For the record I dont condone either if you are working with children, they're sharper and smarter than us already)

When it comes to children and young people I dont think society does its self any favours. Sure some kids will be so scared by the image that is put across and the horror stories that they will be too afraid to ever go near drugs. On the other hand there are those children so disaffected and rebelious that they will break just about any rule or taboo they possibly can. These arent even the big numbers. The children who fall between these two groups are the ones worst affected by the current treatment of drug education and public awareness. They will very easily see that most dealers arent gun totting killers, most users they meet will be ordinary people and that they're first use of drugs does not wreck their life. So they end up with the view that all adults are liars and that the information given about drugs is about as reliable as that on WMD.

Imagine if the government told you that cars were killers ten people a day die on the roads, that they're exhaust fumes cause hundreds of thousands of asthama cases and were destroying our planet. Some people might see it as true, but most people say "thats a small number compared to the benefits we'll take the chance", "those people might have got asthama some other way" and "prove it". Which is just whats happening more people are driving and buying cars than ever and the same goes for drugs. Because the statistics and hype do not fit the individual reality.

one love

First of all I would like to say that I think *most* wont move on. Something like a 1/4 of people in britain use cannabis once a year... but no other drug comes anything like that close... Conclusion > Most people DO NOT move on.

Secondly If drugs were legalised and there supply controlled by the Government I think it would be inevitable that there would be less criminal dealers who would pressurise people into taking hard drugs.

As for the rest I do not pretend that legalisation would solve all the problems... nor would it necessarily reduce drug use. Rather that IMHO we would be in a better position to deal (sorry bad term ) with the problems drugs cause.

"So they end up with the view that all adults are liars and that the information given about drugs is about as reliable as that on WMD."

That is bassically what Michael Plottilo said on TV the other day. You know that Kids see the fact that drug laws bear little resemblence to the reality of the *real* situation. Therefore some just disregard everything adults have to say about the subject.