h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

People who don't believe in [rather, are sure about nonexistance of] God think there'll never be any certainity about believing in God, of course.

People who believe [the way i do] think God chose to let us find him thru thought and feeling instead of our five senses, giving us free will to do so; and that he'll never let us be certain of his existence.

I rather think that it's not plain gut instict that leads me to believe in God, because there's been a whole lot of thought, questions and questions and still more questions before i believed the way i do now.

If a behaviour is appaling- that's, in my view, about oppressing others, i don't give a damn if it stems from any rational basis or not. Science, if you want to, will give you as rational a basis you like for any amount of oppression. Actually, if God is not real and all religion is just made up and commands violance- what does it mean? It means that it's humans' rotten will to oppress which will find an excuse whether thru God or not. It all boils down to individual respnsibility for your actions, your understanding of morality. I don't think the criminals who prawl back-streets at night do what they do for the sake of any God. And the soldiers who're so sure just because you're over the border you're not human. Not to say i thought .you. claimed it, but i've heard it said enough.

Poor unicorn- some maize then

"People who don't believe in [rather, are sure about nonexistance of]"

Do you equate these two things then?

No of course i don't. They're two very different things. The first i have no problem with, the second seems irrational.

It is completely rational given the evidence.

Im sure there never were unicorns Im equally there is no God.

Heres why: Despite so much follore and ancienty art depicting unicorns, hydras, dragons, minators, Atlantians, elves and the like there is no scientific evidence for them having ever exsisted. Yet at ceain points in history peple believedin them just as readily and fervently as the Pope believes in the bigG.

Some might say he doesnt reveal himself, well he's gotten shy all of a sudden because throughtout the Bible he seems only too keen to show his hand. Rama and sita used to raom the forests of India bumping in to gods and demons left right and centre. Derek Akorah feels the energy of spirits more often than I feel like a swift yet despite the billions of souls available to have energy tapped from for free and sold to us at profits not one energy compnay is bothering to harvest this renewable energy source.

The *reason* for this is that all those stories are just complete twaddle. The idea of gods sounds good to people whose minds have difficulty operating at levels higher than those of children of an age who still believe in santa. Not believeing is god is not small mindedness on the part of atheists or rationalists rather it is believeing in the unsubstansiated supernatural that is a failure to use their minds on the part of faithers.

one love

Can I just jump in really quickly at this point and say that I'm not sure it's fair (in fact I think it's in danger of being a little patronising) to suggest that people who believe in God "have difficulty operating at levels higher than those of children". I can see your point in that no sound evidence (to my knowledge) is avaliable for the existence of God other than anecdotal evidence offered by texts such as the bible, but I think it's interesting that world-wide belief in some type of God has been sustained long after science seems to have swept aside most of the best arguments for his (or her) existence.

What really irritates me is that some people insist that having a sense of the mysterious and magical must be called 'God'. I have sometimes in my life sensed the most wonderfully strange and inexplicable things, like say at dawn in the pressence of nature, or feeling intense love. I think it's really sad to want to explain such profound feelings of the inexplicable. I prefer to keep such experiences as 'just inexplicable and beautiful', not put them in a little box, called God!

There're a lot of things i don't believe in. I don't believe in, say, unicorns. I don't follow every thread about unicorns and insult everybody who believes them. Why? Because i cannot expect to gain something from such a discussion. I simply am not interested.

I believe in some things, and i do not insult everybody who doesn't. Why? I'm not immature enough for that.

I before explained what i meant when i said 'to believe'. If anybody will come up with a good answer to why this definition of belief is in any way wrong, we'll discuss things.

Until then everybody'd be better off if they didn't enter into discussions with no prospect of changing their mind.

One mistaken belief is that people who believe anything outside of observable nature does this to explain nature, as a way to replace the explanations already there. It might come as a surprise but they don't, not necessarily.

O, and i know two groups of people who say 'i'm sure'. The first is ignorant people. The second- oh, you guess.

No, I'm far too ignorant to guess, Anarchistduck. Do tell!

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Yeah it's perfectly rational given the evidence against God. We have such an evidence.

Or mean lack of evidence? Heard about white and black crows?

I know exactly what you mean!

Black crows = proof of the Devil

White crows = proof of God

And why not black crows for God and whites for the devil, really? Don't i hate glaring white.

Has anyone ELSE ever seen an albino crow? Or was that a direct message from God to me, lo those many years ago?

I'd painted it just to confuse you. I have the beak marks on my fingers still.

Lawdy, you DO heal slowly. That had to have been 25 years or more ago.

Please don't get me wrong here, ... While once I had as deep-seated a belief as any of my Catholic school chums, and no longer have, I will never belittle anyone else for their convictions. So long as they harm no one else.

Well if they harm someone else, i'll fight everybody who shares my own convictions. So with you there.

What's all this about crows? Somebody needs to explain ths to me.

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AFAIK, not all Popes were dismissive of science, just some of them...

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As a Christian, I do not believe in forcing my views on anyone, it's counter-productive...

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Which is probably lucky - according to legend, unicorns are very aggro, and inclined to be vicious, unless controlled by a beautiful young female teenage virgin, and there ain't many of those around these days!

No amount of black crows prove all crows are black thingy. Bu a single white crow does. [Was that an unnecesary explanation? please don't be hard on me. )

When will i learn to read what i've written! That'd be 'a single white crow disproves it.'