h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Indeed, and that misquote has been alive and well since at least Chaucer's time.

For those who care it should be (I think):

"The love of money is the root of all evil".

"If that hadn't happened, we would be without a lot of our vocabulary."

Yes. This would be a good thing. In that case, words for obscure or complicated things would be built up of smaller words, and we would understand them better instead of having to learn them. As an example, the English word /conscience/ is taken directly from the Latin. It is made of of the roots /con/ (within) and /science/ (knowledge). If you speak Latin, that's obvious. But here in English, /con/ means nothing and the meaning of /science/ has rather drifted.

Had it not been for the Norman invasion, our word for 'conscience' would probably be something similar to the Dutch /inwit/, which comes from the equivalent roots for that language. It makes intuitive sense, and, if you hadn't come across the word before, you could make a fair guess at its meaning. Because English swallowed words whole from Latin for the complex part of its vocabulary, but kept the Germanic roots for the simple part, we don't have that luxury.

Reference (which I'm quoting from memory): The Power of Babel, by John McWhorter.

For the stuff about split infinitives and prepositions, I am relying on The Right Word at the Right Time, published by the Reader's Digest. I may later get the actual books out and do some quoting therefrom.

TRiG.

Well I have a Reader's Digest grammar book, and I'm pretty sure they'll agree with me!

Now, let me have a look.

*Turns to index*

Here we are: prepositions.
Prepositions
.....to end a sentence with, 118

Now, let's see what it says.

"There is the 'rule', for instance, that prepositions should not be used to end clauses with. Most of these prejudices were based on attempts to impose Latin grammar upon English. Preposition, for example, means literally 'placed in front', hence 'something placed in front of something', and so, said the lawgivers, prepositions could not go at the end."

There, you see?

*Looks again*

Argh!

I stand corrected. Although, to be pedantic, I sit corrected.

However, I do think that sentences that avoid ending with a preposition do have a certain charm - and now that I've got it in to my head, I don't think I'll ever be able to get out of the habit.

The Power of Babel sounds interesting. About what is it?

I mean, of course, what is it about? That particular example is not so charming, I admit.

It's a 'popular science' book on historical linguistics. And I found it fascinating. I recommend it wholeheartedly to anyone who's interested in language. What I found most impressive is the discussion on how something that's essential in some languages can be simply omitted in others.

European languages always mark tense. Many other languages don't, unless a statement would be ambiguous without doing so.

In some languages, it is impossible to form a complete statement without marking 'how you know' something. If you make a statement, you must include a small element (prefix or suffix or marker word) which could be translated as 'so I heard', 'so I saw', 'so I was told', or a number of others from a limited set. English can, of course, make these clarifications if it wants to, but in other languages they are necessary parts of the grammar.

Now, I find that interesting. And it is but one of many gems contained therein.

TRiG.

The French are trying to keep their language from being Anglicized? "Something I don't think they can stop given the influence of America"

Wouldn't that be Americanization??

Yes. They're trying to prevent the language from being Anglicised or Americanized (in other words, they want to preserve the French-ness of French). I should have said that the latter is going to be difficult given the USA's influence.

Trig - that does sound like a book that would greatly interest me. I shall have to investigate.

I just re-read post 293 which contains the following: '...pedants who are still living in the 19th century and have not grasped the simple fact that language is a living thing that changes with the times.' It suggests to me that the word 'pedant' needs some attention. For example, that idea could have been conveyed with the word 'pedantrified' meaning pedantry which results in petrified language.

Then there is the matter of giving or receiving a 'right pedanticking' which gives the sense that a stick or a switch may have been involved. (If whips or chains were involved, then we may have a pedantrix on the giving end.)


I have received a right pedanticking a couple of times now for offering what I thought were pedantries (like pleasantries), but which ended in pedantacle (a pedantic debacle) because, like our current political situation, they marched right in based on incorrect intelligence.

With that, may I say 'pedantituditynesshoodicyship' to everyone, meaning 'thank you', but in a deliberately annoying way.

Okay, I've been gone for a few days but the problem with have your cake and eat it is that you have the cake and then eat it so it is perfectly possible, nay necessary to have the cake and eat it but you cannot eat the cake and then have it.. because once you've eaten it it's gone. The proof is in the pudding that someone mentioned is another good example of how these types of sayings have become corrupted into meaninglessness (if that's a word)

'Meaninglessituditynesshoodicyship', do you mean?

(Ok, I'll stop with that one now.)

>> I stand corrected << As the man in orthopaedic shoes said...

Now then. I merely (pedantically) pointed out that a sentence ended with a preposition. I expressed no opinion as to the rightness or wrongness of this. I do not possess a so cannot be "living in the 19th century".

But what I really wanted to ask was...should we still spell words containing a diphthong, such as orthopaedic, with separate letters, or merely substitute an simple "e"?

RF

p.s. Is "Now then." a sentence?

I wouldn't use /now then/ in formal written English. In informal English or reported speech, I would punctuate it as an interjection, with commas:

Now then, I merely (pedantically) pointed out that a sentence ended with a preposition.

I myself am more inclined to use /now/ alone, or perhaps /well/. /Now then/ is not one of my mannerisms.

TRiG.

I prefer to continue with the 'ae' spelling. Wouldn't paediatric (& similar words) otherwise have to be peediatric, to indicate the pronunciation, or be pronounced with a short 'e' sound?

In the US we don't generally use the 'ae' spelling, but we pronounce pediatric the same way you pronounce paediatric. Here, pediatric, pee and pea all start off sounding the same.

So dropping the a is just slovenly writing?

I prefer an ae-ligature: æ. It looks so much classier.

TRiG.

Slovenly? Not wee, I mean us, wait I mean us'ns.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006052085X/102-8432142-5256918?v=glance&n=283155

http://www.worldwidewords.org/reviews/re-pow1.htm

http://www.librarything.com/card_card.php?book=953179

<>

Being a Northerner, I would say that 'Now then' is an acceptable sentence, being one of the many ways we greet one another.

*sits back and waits for comments involving flat caps, whippets and/or sheep*

Lx

One big advantage of using paed- for children is that you won't get confused when someone uses ped- for feet.

Interestingly, the word "pedant" comes from the latin "paedere", meaning "to instruct".

Here's a good book I've got: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0198610122/qid=1152202407/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-9928944-6678402?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

The feet doctors are podiatrists, kid doctors pediatricians or paediatricians as the case may be