h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well, since you call us all liberals, tit-for-tat really.

Here's some reasons for being called right-wing instead of conservative:

Supporting the US military. Under what twisted ideals is the level of spending justifiable? $399 billion allocated to the 'National Defense' (most of which will surely go on foreign intervention) this year. Total world spending? A touch over $800 billion. That's right, the US is responsible for just under half of the world's military spending. China is next at around $90 billion, still huge, although bear in mind that it also has 1.3 billion citizens compared to the USA's 0.28 billion.

The death penalty. Maybe its a cultural thing, but this seems so barbaric. It seems to achieve nothing, and what about the innocents that get killed? And there will be some simply because of the sheer volume of people killed, which also seems huge.

No National Health Service. Poor? No treatment. Hah!

I read yesterday that Al Gore is going to buy a cable network to be liberal and provide a balance to US rightwing media.

Considering the US doesn't seem to actually have a left wing. It remains to be seen I guess.

I used to think that too - that the US left wing was more akin to what I believe used to be called 'pink Tories' - conservatives with left wing leanings, but the more time I spend here the more I see that there *is* a strong US left wing. It just doesn't get the kind of exposure on tv and in the papers that the left wing in the UK does, and 'left wing' US politicians (ie the Democrats) are way more to the right than Old Labour politicians such as Tony Benn, Michael Foot, Dennis Skinner. Nor does it have anything like the power of the grass roots left wing in the UK. A demonstration like the one which turned into the poll tax riot would be almost unthinkable here, although having said that I think recall the civil rights marches in the 60s.

Gosho, the message I get from the US media is that the left wing is alternate or fringe. What's your observation?

Depends what you mean by fringe really. I've met people on the left here who are very similar in thought and motivation to those I met in the 1980s who were anti-Thatcher and pro-GLC. I think that they simply have a much lower profile here in the States because the US (as far as I can tell) never had the same kind of union history as the the UK (which resulted in the Labour Party). Not to say that there weren't unions here, but that they haven't been around quite so long, and the bosses have been more powerful because they've had the law more on their side - the US is all about building up businesses and making money so there's much less regulation on business and commerce than in the UK.

Most working class Americans are much better off than working class Brits, and there's a much larger middle class here. In fact, people who would consider themselves working class in the UK are proud to think of themselves as middle class in the US. The US economy and the US system in general keeps its populace more satisfied and satiated than in the UK, and the US media keeps them safely tucked away from all news except for local trivia and major world events which involve the US in some capacity, in which the US is usually portrayed as either hero or victim - no middle ground.

And then there's the patriotism. It's simply un-American to be left wing. Just look at the anti-Communist paranoia that went on here in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. Anyone who is left of Ronald Reagan is called a liberal, and that word is used an insult by many. Many Democrat politicians are afraid to admit to being a liberal.

All in all, that makes it difficult for a lot of people to make up their own minds about which way they want to lean politically, and until the intervention of the internet I think it was hard for them to get in touch with each other, or in many cases even know that they weren't alone! So there's not the same level and acceptance of grass roots activism as there is in the UK from what I've seen.

Maybe someone who is involved at grass roots level can prove me wrong on all that

Gosho, I'd say that's a pretty accurate assessment of the U.S. situation. No one wants to consider themselves poor, because the poor are the losers in the capitalist system, especially in the U.S. where competition is everything in most area, economic, political and otherwise - its all about winning and devil take the hindmost. At the same time every rich person likes to think of themselves as self made because there is a cultural dislike for inherited wealth that seems somehow tied to dislike for high culture and intellectualism. The worst insults that can thrown in the U.S. are that someone is a snob or an ivory tower intellectual. 'If you're so smart, how come you're not rich?" being a common critique. There is a powerful anti-intellectual streak in U.S. culture that goes along with the populist tendency and the fondness for religious fundementalism. Where else in the world would you see someone described as "too smart to be elected president"?

Let me clarify something about my post:
"Most working class Americans are much better off than working class Brits"

Most working class Americans have a much higher standard of living than working class Brits... because so many things are comparatively cheap, most especially land and property, and cars and petrol.

I've seen, for instance, a British journalist write that the TV show Roseanne is not about a blue collar family because a blue collar family would never have a house that big. Houses like that are perfectly common for average working class neighbourhoods because property is so cheap compared to the UK.

although comparasons with the UK are no use to me. The information was helpful. Here it's a pretty-much even split.

Did anyone hear that show on Friday? Well, before the show, 50% of me was saying he's guilty on the drug thing, 50% not. After hearing the first program segment, 75% says he's guilty, 25% not.

"As a young broadcaster in the 1970s, Limbaugh once told a black caller: "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back." "

Ooh, that wasn't nice. What was the caller saying? If he was *asking* for it, then Limbaugh was not acting any worse than the many h2g2 researchers who have insulted me.

"A decade ago, after becoming nationally syndicated, he mused on the air: "Have you ever noticed how all composite pictures of wanted criminals resemble Jesse Jackson?""

So he thinks Jesse Jackson is a crook. Big deal. Lots of people think that. He has insulted Jackson and several other black supremisists behind the golden EIB mike many many times over the years, while praising Clarance Thomas and other *conservative* blacks. While that may or may not be a nice thing to do, that Limbaugh is a *racist* is simply not true. Bigot might be applicable, but racist doesn't really fit the bill, because he only insults liberal blacks.

My general attitude towards racial issues is: Why are people so stupid to think skin color matters anyway? This is yet more evidence for another belief that I firmly hold, that "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World!"

Nerd42

Since when has Jesse Jackson been a black Supremesist?

What you dont understand is that when I insult you it is purely based on what you choose to post and I restrict it to that.

For Limbaugh to insult that persons character, intelligence or arguments based on what the caller said is one thing but to stoop to the hate crime of belittleing someones ethnic background is the very definition of racist.

But it does not suprise me to find you coming out with the "be a good negro and you wont get whipped" type stuff Nerd.

I see now that when I have been attacked and harrassed by racists what they actually were attacking me for was my politics. Gee Im glad there are smart folks like you to tell me how it really is. I guess Hitler was gasing all those Jews because they were "uppity semites"?

Im also rather depressed that you still think skin colour doesnt matter, true it shouldnt but if you look at the real world and not the Fox approved version of reality you might just begin to see how very wrong you are.

"Im also rather depressed that you still think skin colour doesnt matter, true it shouldnt but if you look at the real world and not the Fox approved version of reality you might just begin to see how very wrong you are."

More material for the table on My Space. check it out.

What I've been saying is that it *shouldn't* matter what skin color you are. To anyone. For anything. Good or bad. Shouldn't matter. Stupid world that it does.

"When you have finished your education and you are looking for a job the owner of FOX has a nice middle of the road news paper over here, Im sure they could find a job for a smart guy like you."

Are you talking about me or somebody else?



Oh, and by the way, I have read this book: (i think the link below has most of the book right there for you to read for FREE)

http://www.fair.org/press-releases/limbaugh-debates-reality.html

First this book condemns him for constantly misquoting people with his "sound bites", (hehehe, Limbaugh invented that term, and now it's funny hearing liberals in the media use it not having any idea who invented it) then it spends most of it's time misquoting him! This happens lots of times all over the *American* media. Here is an example of what I mean:

In the show on Friday, a few seconds after he went off the air after the first program segment a reporter tried to give a summary of what he'd said relating to the drug alligations. He said that Limbaugh told his listeners there might be "more on this than you want to hear". That is not exactly true. He promised his listeners that though he does not want to address the drug thing today except for what is said in this first program segment, it will be talked about on this program for weeks to come, to the extent that you'll probably even hear "more on this than you want to hear". See the difference? You have to first look at what he's saying in context, and make shure he's being serious because he's quite a joker. I've also read "The Great Limbaugh Con"

http://www.laugh-point.com/The_Great_Limbaugh_Con_And_Other_RightWing_Assaults_on_Common_Sense_1564741028.html

This one goes heavily into economics - and I admit I am not an economist and might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I had trouble understanding some of what is said in the latter half of this book, using some city as a case study of conservative economics. I like social issues better than economics - being an economist seems like worshiping at the altar of the Almighty Dollar to me.

Like I said, I just listen to Limbaugh for laughs - don't take a joker like him seriously.

Nerd42

"I see now that when I have been attacked and harrassed by racists what they actually were attacking me for was my politics. Gee Im glad there are smart folks like you to tell me how it really is. I guess Hitler was gasing all those Jews because they were "uppity semites"?"

"I guess Hitler was gasing all those Jews" - don't forget russians, communists, johova's witnesses, the disabled etc.

"I see now that when I have been attacked and harrassed by racists" - where do you live? and (if I may ask) what ethnicity are you?

I live in West Bromwich, in Enland. My ethnic heritage is African-Carribean and British.

Hence

Those cops that gave me anti-drug lectures in primary school were right. You can have a flashback reaction and start hallucinating decades later. For example, I just saw a CNN report saying that Arnold 'the Terminator' Swartzeneggar has been elected governor of California. OBVIOUSLY that is just took ridiculous to be possible so I MUST be high.

Good point made on the Sean Hannity show the other day by sean's friend Marty - anyone who says Rush is racist needs to look at the color of Mr. Snerdley; Rush's program observer, who seems to be the only member of Rush's staff he will speak to by name while on the air - though the listeners usually only hear a few seconds of Rush's side of the conversation because Mr. Limbaugh does not have guests on his show and Mr. Snerdley like the rest of the staff except for Mr. Limbaugh himself does not speak on the air. Rush *could* if he wanted, have an entirely white staff but he doesn't - and Mr. Snerdley is what you could call the #2 guy on the show. I have never heard Mr. Limbaugh mention this fact when defending himself as not being a racist.

You know, it seems one of the problems with these conversations is we really haven't established where the center actually is. In America this undoubtably to be found in between the somewhat conservative Republicans and the liberal Democrats, neither of which party, with the "fair and balanced" hat on, can be called extremist - though you'll throw your verbal darts and I'll throw mine. But from what I've heard here on this site and elsewhere, (not on talk radio) Europe looks like it's somewhere completely different on the political spectrum - where instead of left vs right, like it is in America, it's Left vs Super-Left. (notice the difference between "left" and "Left", where I'm putting most h2g2 Researchers on the "Left")

In my opinion, Arnold is closer to the center than anyone I have heard of anywhere. (which is why if I lived in Cali-for-nia my canidate would have been tom mcclintock because I am *not* in the center) The best way I can describe Arnold is a tax-cutting Kennedy with enourmous star power - or a puppet slash stooge with enourmous star power.

Funny thing I forgot to mention while the Cali-for-nia recall was going on - a recent press release from Ninetndo states that Mario will not be seeking office at this time. I heard that large numbers of people penciled in "Mickey Mouse" instead.
Nerd42

*I have never heard Mr. Limbaugh mention this fact when defending himself as not being a racist.*

Well Nerd that could be because the two are not mutually exclusive.

Criminals who work as policeofficers, firefighters who are arsonists, Dr Harold Shipman who instead of healing patients murdered some of them.

Just because he knows or employs some black people does not mean he is not a racist. Come on I know your not the brightest of sparks but do you need me to explain that to you or are you attempting to cover Limbaughs racism up with the oldest and lamest alibi in the book?

Limbaugh is not a racist. He does not think people of a different skin color are inferior and also does not think that white people are the best kind of sneech on the beaches. He wants everyone who works hard to succeed. His first book will tell you that.

Aargain says, "if you can read, read it"

By the way, I'm opening the new 42FM Debate Channel! A1324252

Nerd42

Then after you read it I suggest also reading the books mentioned above to get both sides - seems like you people are only listening to attacks on a person and then condemning him instead of getting both sides on the real issues.
Nerd42

How does the old saying go?

Shame on you if you kick me once shame on me if you kick me twice.

Over and over again Limbaugh has made racist comments. Now if it happened once or twice he could maybe hide behind a defence of insensitivity or ignorance of the issues. Howerver his contiued malign attitude towards people he does not know based on the colour of their skin can only be called racist.

I know it and you know it yet you choose to avoid this clear and simple fact. Why is that?

"In America this undoubtably to be found in between the somewhat conservative Republicans and the liberal Democrats"

Oh you mean right and further right. I don't know europes politics and it would be stupid of anyone to group a place so varied in generalisations.

We have a righ wing radio person here who made a raciest comment about the UN secretary general. I first heard about it on the 6pm news and I saw the PM. She publicly distanced the whole country from him and his comments.

Is it just my imagination or is the right wing the source of racism?

Badger, I saw a brit-indian on TV doing a standup bit on accent envy between brit-indians and brit-jamacians(SP?). I wish I could remember more of it, it was good.