h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

harking back to my university political science classes I would point out that those in Canada, the U.S. and the UK who were part of the so-called neo-conservative movement that ruled in the 1980 (Thatcher, Regan, Mulroney et al) and provide the ideological basis for the current bunch in the white house - what in most western countries are called conservatives - were in fact classical liberals. The doctrine of Laissez Faire, especially in economics is or at least was originally a liberal ideology. Classic liberalism champions equality of opportunity, a level playing field as it were. It did not champion equality of result - that is socialism. Classic conservative favored locking up liberals and socialist and anyone else who tried to change the status quo of aristocratic rule by divine right.

The people we have in charge of the United states at the moment are republican conservatives with strong streaks of facist plutocracy and industrial oligarchy, theocratic tendencies and l. In Canada and I think the UK as well we have an economically conservative, but socially progressive government with a dash of plutocracy.

all of whom should be as DNA used to say 'first against the wall when the revolution comes"

"Well put.
It is obvious that your sense of order demands clear and logical thought and action. You believe that things must be defined. That communication ought to be concise and precise. You believe that discussion can achieve concensus. I get the impression you are a clean living optimist and a small 'c' conservative. And I admire you for it.

Some here really have discriminated against you and I'm glad to see you standing your ground. Because whether I agree with you or not, I'd much rather listen to someone who is sure of themselv.. Oh wait, you said that."

Are you being serious or are you crazyhorse under another name? This would definately be the first serious conservative I've met around here. Maybe I'm seeing things and should quit debating.

Nerd42

"You believe that discussion can achieve concensus."

Well, the more I talk to liberals, the less I believe that. There is just no comprimising with these people! And it seems that President Bush doesn't see that. His whole "compassionate conservatism" thing, which is basically, comprimise with the Democrats as much as possible while still trying to keep your stand on most issues. Not gonna happen.

That's why I wouldn't have voted for him in the republican primary. My canidate was Alan Keyes. I would have liked to see him as the first black US president. He just wasn't popular enough. Never had a chance of getting the nomination with a president's son in the race.

I don't like to call myself a Republican really. That puts me too much in the center. I have my platform (which I am currently working on writing) and I will always vote for the canidate that I think most matches it, and has a reasonable shot at winning. Or, I vote for the canidate that will at least keep the canidate that least matches my platform from gettting in, which is why I might, maybe, possibly vote for the Terminator if I lived in California and there was nobody else who agreed with me in any way at all on the ballot. I am much more of a Republican than a Democrat though! I think the Republicans are moving nearer and nearer to the center. And the Democrats?! I remember a quote from one of Rush's books, talking about Taxula's evil lab assistant Algore, that I'm borrowing and changing around here: Wherever there is a liberal battle to be fought, the Democrats invariably put themselves in command of the Left flank.

From my point of view, as part of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy, does the Republicans moving to the center mean the Democrats are winning? Are they causing the entire political spectrum to move left? Who knows.

Nerd42

"You believe that discussion can achieve concensus."

Well, the more I talk to liberals, the less I believe that. There is just no comprimising with these people! And it seems that President Bush doesn't see that. His whole "compassionate conservatism" thing, which is basically, comprimise with the Democrats as much as possible while still trying to keep your stand on most issues. Not gonna happen.

That's why I wouldn't have voted for him in the republican primary. My canidate was Alan Keyes. I would have liked to see him as the first black US president. He just wasn't popular enough. Never had a chance of getting the nomination with a president's son in the race.

I don't like to call myself a Republican really. That puts me too much in the center. I have my platform (which I am currently working on writing) and I will always vote for the canidate that I think most matches it, and has a reasonable shot at winning. Or, I vote for the canidate that will at least keep the canidate that least matches my platform from gettting in, which is why I might, maybe, possibly vote for the Terminator if I lived in California and there was nobody else who agreed with me in any way at all on the ballot. I am much more of a Republican than a Democrat though! I think the Republicans are moving nearer and nearer to the center. And the Democrats?! I remember a quote from one of Rush's books, talking about Taxula's evil lab assistant Algore, that I'm borrowing and changing around here: Wherever there is a liberal battle to be fought, the Democrats invariably put themselves in command of the Left flank.

From my point of view, as part of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy, does the Republicans moving to the center mean the Democrats are winning? Are they causing the entire political spectrum to move left? Who knows.

Nerd42

you are sadly mistaken if you believe republicans are moving towards the center. their policies have never been more totaliterian than they arte right now..allthough reagan came close.with a stranglehold on the congress the executive and the judiciary never have the freedoms of the american people been more in jeopardy

"That puts me too much in the center. I have my platform (which I am currently working on writing) and I will always vote for the canidate that I think most matches it, and has a reasonable shot at winning. Or, I vote for the canidate that will at least keep the canidate that least matches my platform from gettting in,"

a wishy washy conservative. Now what were all the ignorant and insulting remarks you made to me, Nerd?

Conservatives have taken leave of reality more than I had thought if they think Republicans are center. Then again, America doesn't really have a left in it's two party system it want's us to belive is democracy.

the current system of delegates who are unelected renders the popular vote powerless.this is hardly a democracy

Alan Keyes? the only person crazier than him that I've ever seen allowed on television is Michael Savage. Both of them probably ought to be put away where they will no longer pose a danger to themselves and others.
The Reagan Thatcher Mulroney era moved the political centre several leaps to the right, so that what was once a fairly middle of the road policy position like providing national health care or reading arrested people their rights, is now seen as a communist plot by the right and viewed with suspicion by the majority. Liberal has become some sort of dirty word. Most Americans don't know what left wing is. Ted Kennedy, the right's favorite "liberal" to demonize, would have been considered middle of the road in the 60's and 50's in the United States, it wasn't until the Reagan 80's that he was even thought of as a liberal. Amerika hasn't had a true politcal left since the end of the 30's. Sen. McCarthy saw to that.

Ah yes, the famous lebell any you don't like/want others to like, communist. That's what I had always thought turned amerika into a right-wing paradise.

I seem to recall a saying that "the name of a thing is not the thing itself". Stop getting bogged down in names.

There are some things which we all agree are "good". We can all agree that National Security is a "good thing". Same for a better future for our children. Same for a properous economy. We just vary in how we believe these common desires and beliefs will be accomplished. We'd get further in our discussions if we talked specifics rather than generalities.

Now let's see if I can introduce a discussion point without resorting to any labels.

The odd thing I find is that the people in charge who are pushing for "less government" and a call for "state's rights", in a campaign for national safety have actually increased the amount of governmental regulation and control. I'm referring to the Homeland Security Act. "State's rights" does not apparently include any action the individual states take which is in opposition to the federal position -- such as the medical marijuana laws which have been enacted in at least 4 states and then declared illegal by the Fed. How then does this equate to "smaller government"?


How many of you tried to get a complete copy of the Patriot Act 2, being prepared for committee? Might want to read it, whether you live in the USA or not. Very interesting in it's implications.

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/patriot2-hi.pdf

Don't try to print it out unless you have 120 sheets of paper in your printer! Better yet, if you have the disk space, save the document to disk and read it on your computer, with Acrobat.

SC

SC, I can't but read your post as though you're talking only to americans.

Are you being rude with intent?

i don't agree that national security is a good thing...in fact some henious crimes have been committed in the name of"national security" the invasion of panama being one bay of pigs the list goes on

"a wishy washy conservative. Now what were all the ignorant and insulting remarks you made to me, Nerd?"

How is calling one's self "a proud member in good standing of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy" wishy washy? I say out loud I'm a conservative. It's wishy washy to not admit one is a liberal when one's platform makes it clear that one is.

"Conservatives have taken leave of reality more than I had thought if they think Republicans are center. Then again, America doesn't really have a left in it's two party system it want's us to belive is democracy."

Didn't say they *were* center, I said they were moving in that direction with Bush continually trying his "bi-partisan" schemes to comprimise with the Democrats (who hate him) on domestic policy. They continue to prove me right in my saying there is no comprimising with (as they say in the President's home state of Texas) y'all. That's what his "compassionate conservatism" really means: Comprimise. Wouldn't be such a bad idea if the Lefties kept their end of the deal. But there is no danger of that ever happening any time soon. They're waay too busy bashing Bush.

"i don't agree that national security is a good thing..."

OK. Fine. When more terrorists show up, we'll send them all straight to your house.

"in fact some henious crimes have been committed in the name of "national security" the invasion of panama being one bay of pigs the list goes on"

Can't comment. Insufficient data.

Nerd42

when did the tiny nation of panama ever cause a threat to"national security" yet hundreds of innocent people were killed during the invasion simply because the U.S. didn't want to honour the treaty relinquishing soveriegnty over the canal zone in 1999 and to keep norriega quiet about his knowledge of the cocaine for weapons deal orchestrated by bush

Sorry, before my time. Try filling me in more. A bit of advice to you, what you're saying *may* be entirely correct, but the way you've phrased it makes you look like a raving lunitic.... no offense. Oh wait, your name is "crazyhorse"? OK then, you are a raving lunitic.

lunatic is spelled with an a derived from the belief that the moon luna controls the actions of the deranged

" It's wishy washy to not admit one is a liberal when one's platform makes it clear that one is."

I said that my beliefs were too specific to call myself a liberal. To call myself a liberal would tie me to some things I dissagree with.

Nerd, you need a dictionary if you think that is 'wishy washy'. It's that thick book with no story that you're probably using you prop something up in your home.

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So, crazyhorse. When's the next full moon so we know to expect a nonsensical barrage from Nerd?

my guess is he'll be spoutin again as soo as rush limbaugh gives him a few more ideas