h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The only thing I understand, is that you are whining about something that really isn't important in todays society. The land doesn't belong to you or *your people*...you have no claim on it. Nobody does! You are jumping up and down on a little box, shouting about horrific things that never happened to you. You are being racist, and then complaining about racism against you.

Of course I don't understand. I don't understand anything about fundamentalist bigots.

The injustices aren't just in the past. Unless you think what people do is past as soon as they do it, Crouch.

I'm Newe (Western Shoshone) Weenuche (Ute) Ningwi (Southern Paiute) Inde (Western Apache). I've included the more common names because people here just absolutely refuse to look stuff up. You'd think it was network tv or something.

The only thing that would be new to share would be if the government actually did right for a change. Sadly, that won't happen until whoever's going to assume responsibility for the government gets their butts in gear, hello?

I live at Duck Valley when I'm not at school. That's a reservation, or at least what's supposed to pass for one, okay?

You don't understand treaties either, do you s@urnine? Too bad.

Okay, for the umteenth time, the United States government made treaties that recognized the sovereignty of the Newe as well as other indian tribes and also recognized their original title to the land. The United States title derives from the treaties. That's the law of the land and that's what the United States government has continually abrogated since and still does.

So you can call that racist if you want. All legal land tenure in the United States is then based on racist doctrine. BUH!!

And what would you have us do? Throw ourselves off a cliff? Petition the government? Dismantle our society?

Don't care about treaties. Treaties don't mean s**t.

What I was commenting on, is your behaviour. Can you not act like a decent human being? Why do you need to spout racist, bigoted, ignorant insults everywhere? Why are you so proud of your skin colour? What did you do to contribute to that? Nothing I bet. More than likely, you are one of those that talks about their race more than contributes to their culture.

Analiese, there is no place for racism around these parts. Pick up your soapbox, and leave if you cannot act like a decent human being.

Come on, Zoomer. What would I have you do? Honor the treaties, BUH!!!

Ruby Valley Treaty says there should be a large reservation around Ruby Valley, but there's not because the government let it be encroached upon and took the rest for BLM and forest service land. Give it back. Nobody's using it except for half-assed grazing operations which are ruining it anyways. And that's just for openers.

In the case of the Lakota, give back the Black Hills. In the case of the San Juan Paiutes, give them their own reservation independent of the Navaho Nation. In the case of the Gosutes at Skull Valley, get the spent uranium out of there. And while we're on the subject, stop treating indian land as a convenient place to dump that sort of thing and other hazardous waste. And we can go on and on and on with housing and water rights and whatever.

What would I have you do? Deal fairly for a change, that's all. Play fair, share, take turns, tell truth. You learned in kindergarten, right?

Ok. I have now read the summary of the Shoshoni position. They appear to have a valid argument. I wish them well in their suit.

What I don't see there is a valid reason to hate all white people.

Why are you getting bent out of shape when you use a term that we don't understand? We're not being lazy, you are. If you reflect back to that conversation we had about SETI, I took the time to explain all of my technical terms.

Put your rhetoric in historical context. All US land claims are based on superior force. So how is that different from the Western Shoshoni? Just because they don't have a written history doesn't mean they didn't kick someone's butt and take that property away. You want to try telling me Native Americans never fought wars amongst each other over land rights?

The lands that are still in the possession of the original settlers are few and far between. Iceland, and... err... uhh... I guess we can say parts of China and Egypt... wait, no, probably not Egypt... hmmm...

*OK I've read the backlog and been thoroughly amused at Analiese's toying with the white boys. Great stuff. I'm glad to see cl zoomer taking charge and trying to sort things out diplomatically but I'm afraid the point (Injun lady teases innocent white boys) has been missed by almost everyone. It was ever thus. Ah well.*

Let me get this staight John W Fulton if A native american makes closed minded bigoted statements it is considered 'toying with the white boys' And you call it 'great stuff'. That we have all lost the point? I think the point is qiute clear. Analiese believes it is her god given right to demean and attack all who do not come from her chossen blood line or those who would genuflect to her views.
John W Fulton statements like that only serve to widen the gulf beween all of us and gives ammunition to the very racist mindset you disavow.

Treaties are the law of the land in the United States, s@urnine. They have the same force of law as the Constitution.

If you really believe they don't mean s**t then you're the problem.

And you don't even know what my culture is or what it means to contribute to it.

And I suppose blowing off treaties makes you a decent human being then huh?

What a deadbeat.

The issue is that the United States made treaties, Mugwump, to avoid war, then abrogated those treaties after their forces were sufficient to prevent anybody from objecting militarily.

So in that sense you're right, it is based on superior, or at least brute, force.

Now if that's the way you want to do it, then I can understand people blowing up your buildings and whoever's in them, but if you want to do it by law, then you shouldn't be approving of fraud.

Darling, you assume far too much. Bad for the digestion. How about we try again, you ask me about what I am instead of assuming I am the big White enemy.

Still no excuse for racism. If the government are screwing you over, how about you do something about it, instead of sitting on your backside and whinging?

*Waves magic wand and all the injustices in a country other than his are resolved*

Feel better?

So much hostility! Analiese! You need to calm down.

Re : what you are doing for your culture.

What *are* you doing? About as much a the BNP are doing for white culture, that's what.

Defining people by the colour of their skin and the actions of people they don't even know, is not a sign of intelligence.

To quote Inigo Montoya, regarding your use of the word deadbeat, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

I would have to say the same thing regarding your use of the word "treaty." No treaty, to my understanding, has the force of law. Treaties are agreements between two sovereign peoples, but are only as good as the people who enter into them. That's because law, like the Constitution, has a body in place to enforce it. Who enforces a treaty? Who has the power to make the US government do anything it decides it isn't going to do?

Nobody. In that, you're just as screwed as us palefaces.

Don't worry, the law suits are pending, darling too. Not that it matters since the government refuses to obey the law or the courts, so what do we do then, einstein?

So what are you, darling too? Somebody who disapproves of racism until its official government acts or omissions benefit them?

When have I said I approve of fraud?

I pointed out the reality of the situation, but I did not endorse it. The Shoshoni more likely than not acquired their land rights through force. Then the US government took it from them by a fraud that is now backed by superior force. Maybe the US should give the land back to the Shoshoni, and the Shoshoni can in turn give it back to whoever had it before them... and so on...

Treaties prevent war and violence because they offer alternatives to those sorts of resolutions. To abrogate treaties is to invite violent reprisal and the sort of thing that's happening in the middle east right now.

Now, there's not enough of us left to pose a credible military threat to the United States. As an AIM activists observed in the 1970s, you can't fight tanks with pea shooters.

All we can do is appeal to people's respect for the law and their good sense. If they possess neither, then eventually they will be victimized as they have victimized others.

Now, that ought to be enough. We already been over the same old crap excuses that we've been getting for hundreds of years.

So nothing changes except, when we're gone, who will you swindle then? Each other?

Oh, NOW you take the time to ask one of us what kind of person we are.

Do you always see the world as a big angry white face, or is it just on this thread?

Some people have such a persecution complex.

For all you know, I could be mixed race, or one of *you* or just plain white. It wouldn't make a difference. You have no right to judge people based on whether they are one of you, or not.

Analiese, please, just calm down, and behave yourself.

Excuse me. Do you know who *we* are? You seem to think that the online community of Hootoo is secretly the government and people of the United States. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Or do you just think we are all Middle Class White People? I think you might be wrong there, as well. Since we are not, what exactly are you asking us to do? Play fair in life? Recognise your pain? Some of us have and in return you have spat in our faces.

( I seem to be having tremendous difficulty replying to anything here - some sort of strange technical problem - so I just hit reply until this went through to someone's post in this thread, though this is just a general post) ...

Original topic: I've wanted to say (for a while now) that I am a USAian and I like Canadians. Yes, thank you, it feels better to confess it. Actually, I have Canadian relatives, since my Grandfather was born there right after his family left Germany just before WWI broke out. At any rate, I like Canadians, have several friends and relatives in teh Ottowa region. One of them is even French-Canadian (insert smiley here). They're all okay in my book, even the French. There's enough anger and hatred in the world already without my adding to the pile, even if I do feel those emotions from time to time.

"If you look for the bad in mankind, you will surely find it." - Abraham Lincoln

- JD