h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Any opinions on Palestine? As you may guess from my article on Chechnya A904079, I also support the right of the Palestinians to resist the Israeli occupation (although not by targeting civilians) and have their own state. I also support the Palestinian right of return, mainly because it is enshrimed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/eng_print.html) in Article 13 part 2:

"Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, AND TO RETURN TO HIS COUNTRY"

(Emphasis added)

I agree with you.
I find the Israleli/Palestine question complicated and difficult, but you can´t put people in refugee camps for 50(?) years and expect them to be happy about their situation

It's been since 1948, so that's almost 55 years. And the occupation of the Palestinian West Bank and Gaza Strip, and the Syrian Golan Heights has lasted since 1967.

The whole religious thing complicates matters. There's plenty of empty space around if they wanted a homeland but the Israelis just *had* to have Jerusalem.

Israel 'ha'd'to have Jerusalem, since it was invaded by all of its surrounding arab countries. Interestingly enough, Israel was victorious. People tend to jump to conclusions, without really understanding reality. It is a mishap many share, and it is probably the reason mankind is progressing in such a slow pace.

What I mean is, why did they have to move to that area?

There was a debate about this in the Daily Telegraph a week or two back. From what I can remember the facts were this: The Palestinians have no legimate rights to the land because Palestine as a country does not exist! Also, apparently, the British put the Palestinians there in the 19th century just as we placed the Israelis there after the war (the Palestinians of the Crusades and modern Palestinians are two separate people). The Palestinians and the Israelis share a common ancestory - or so various "experts" claim. I haven't got the time to verify all the facts as that would mean trawling through history books, religious books and God knows what but this is what various Western and Islamic academics say.

There appears to be no right or wrong in this debate. Both sides, in my opinion, are behaving in a reprehensible manner and are as bad as each other. Neither side appears to be willing to coexist with each other (I'm talking about Governments here and not citizens). Perhaps the differences and the hatred are insurmountable now, which would be a sad thing indeed.

but the Palestinian people were being evicted from their homes for Jewish settlers to move into. and when they (naturally) got upset about this the Isaelis supressed them, supported by you-know-who in funds and arms. ["and the sons of David did smite them with their tanks and their attack helicopters"] no wonder the Palestinians go to such extreme measures.

I think it's irresponsible of us to be stirring things up in Iraq while the Israel/Palestine situation is in more urgent need of UN attention.

I agree that more should be done with the Palestine/Israel problem before attacking Iraq. North Korea poses a greater threat than Iraq but as N.K. is a nuclear country and Iraq isn't (presumably) then Iraq is a soft option - certainly a lot easier to deal with than Palestine or Israel.

Both sides go to extremes when retaliating and both sides are guilty. There is no excuse to kill innocent people regardless of which "side" they are on (I know this is a little naive and innocents do get killed in such exchanges.) The Palestinians should learn that terrorist attacks never work and the Israelis should learnt that heavy-handed retaliatory strikes only alienate them from the Western world and moderate Islamic countries alike.

problem is, is that each leads to the other. neither side wants to give in first, and it's all fuelled by bad feeling. bad feeling which we're about to add to (again) by attacking Iraq.

I thought The War Against Terror was about reducing terrorism, not increasing it.

Call my Mr Cynical, but it seems to be more about oil interests than terrorism now, at least that's how it is being reported in some sections of the press. The French are against the war in Iraq because the state-owned (or controlled) oil companies have made agreements with Hussein and if the Americans kill or exile him then those agreements between France and Iraq will be null and void and the Americans will grab the oil rights.

Hmmm, strayed somewhat! Both sides are far too obstinate and proud to back down and trust each other. I suppose that's only natural after so much bloodshed.

The Palestinian problem is a typical example of what happens when outsiders annex territory which historically, traditionally or whatever, belongs to another groupd, nation, tribe, dynasty etc.

The "owners" in this case the Palestinians object and try by whatever means to get their territory back. The "usupers" here the Israelis do their best to resist these efforts and impose strigent restrictions and retaliations.

The "owners" resent these and grow even more militant and the "usurpers" react een more punitively. Vicious cycle.

The Israelis, of course are particularly keen to hold on the "their" territory. The Jews have never been able to (or been allowed to, depending on your point of view)intergate with the dominant culture in the countries where they have lived and so really need their own land. Israel they regard as theirs by right for biblical reasons (or, again, depending on your point of view, conveniently affect to do so)and guard their "ownership" with great fervour, rigidity and unwillingness to compromise.

The Palestinians, who lived in Palestine before the Isaelis arrived in 1948, regard the land as theirs and are equally unwilling to compromise.

What results is a vicious stalemate, though prpbably, if the Isaelis didn't have US support they would have been pushed into the Med by now.

The picture is not all that disimilar from those Northern Ireland or Zimbabwe as far as I can see. Or from Uganda all those years ago. Or even from the US (Native Americans), Australia (Aborigines) or New Zealand (Maoris). The outcomes are different because the balances of power were diffeernt but the circumstances were closely analogous.

Pity we can't undo history and get out of other peoples' countries.

I agree that the Palestinians should stop targeting Israeli civilians, and instead target only the Israeli military to resist the occupation (which is illegal under UN Security Council Resolution 242)