h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

You didn't know that a lot of people filling churches are just poseurs?

It's always been in style to go to church, but rarely in style to act Christian 7 days a week.

Not really I knew some, for sure and I certainly knew the members did not always act like it. I figured they believed in God at the very least

I guess I value my time and energy too much, to think people would bother wasting time faking it! I have heard *Posers* before BUT not about church goers

Interesting. People are amazing.

Thanks for the idea, Abbi Normal. James M Fraser does seem a fascinating guy... I have a photo of him somewhere, an old sepia one, where he's wearing a heavy coat and three quarters on to the camera. He looks like a really scary school principal!

Yeah... I know a lot of people who call themselves Christians. But there are so many who believe in /religion/, not God. Big difference.

I suppose there are, Mystrunner. But I assume there are fewer than there were, as society does not reward church attendance, and it does not punish non-attendance at church.(If it ever did, and I think that apart from such not entirely sane places as Calvin's Geneva, the stories of vicious punishment of non church goers, are just spooky urban legends..)

Honestly, I doubt that God is very worried about you making it to church. I'm pretty sure that when John wandered about the desert, there wasn't a church for /miles/. And besides, according to the Bible, the church is anywhere where two Christians meet.

I like the collapsable podium Did he have the proverbial soap box crate to stand on?

It would be great if he also kept a diary!Many travelors did back then.

I know he kept a diary of his arrival in NZ on the ship his family came on - one Scottish history society (in Canada, where the family came from) apparently published it.
He had 2 sons, one of them my grandfather, and only one grandchild (my mother) - but he was one of 10 siblings, one of whom had 19 kids. So, there are squillions of relatives out there I know nothing about! Sending out a call to all relatives of James Murdoch Fraser, born 1878, died approx 1911 in NZ! There could be 1000s of you out there in USA, Canada, NZ or even back in Scotland...

Boy that is a big family. They seem to be quite common back then. He died at 33? Thats a bit young, even for back then.

Geneva: I think it would have been better to be there than somewhere like England under Mary, for example. Since she was interested in outward conformity (or at least, would settle for it) and it didn't run through society, so you have all that chaos... whereas the Calvinist method was much more society-based, permeating more or less all aspects of life. Less likely to burn folk, at least. (Which was always more of a Catholic speciality, it seems, no disrespect to modern Catholics since that's how it was done in themdays. Also allowing for the fact that Mary was slightly... lacking.)
And both Calvin & Luther had been inspired by the Christian Humanists (misleading title, not to be taken in the literal modern sense) who were very keen on education rather than forced conformity.
I would have taken Luther's offer, personally... far more jolly than that dour creature Jean.

Your ancestor has a fantastic name for a preacher, btw. Would you ever append it for your own?

I havent read anything between this post and the first post, but i think that whether its trendy or not, people wont bash Christianity unless they truly mean it. And even then, i dont think trends would affect that kind of thing at all. Plus, bashing christianity is really pointless.

Fun, but pointless.

Depends. If you find it fun to mock deeply-held beliefs (cue Zarniwhoop), why stop with Christians?
If you just want to mock poseurs for their shallowness, there are plenty both in and out of the church.

I have a problem with *some* exponents of certain ideas which they claim are Christian. I have a problem with religion being forced on the neutral (which happened to me in school with Christianity). However, Christianity in general is of little or no consequence to me, so you're right about the pointless.

I know how that is. The community I live in forces Christianity. It sounds weird that I'm saying this, seeing as I'm Christian, but it is a huge problem. It breeds shallowness. I've found God. I /know/ it annoys the out of people to have someone knock on thier door, or pester them for quite a while.

Its sad. Christianity used to be a rebellion, and the people had spirit, and values. Now... now that's all gone.

Rebellion? hardly... if that were the case people would have chosen it to p*ss others off, rather than because they'd really found God. And it's been in power for so bloody long now it's equally pointless to moon over the old days. (To be honest, would you really have wanted to be a Christian under the original Romans?)

Although I regard mocking a religion for itself as daft, it's satisfying to see the less illustrious of today's Christians accusing 'satanists' of all the unpleasant deeds that were once attributed to their spirirtual forbears. Not true then, not now, and them in total ignorance.

A rebellion against the old beliefs. The Romans certaintly didn't like us. Now, the Church is some hulking monstrosity, with pastors who are more like politicians than whatnot. Not all of them, mind, but the life is gone.
I would rather be in roman days. To make a difference, and save lives. If my death would save one soul, even that of my worst enemy (luckily I don't have one ), it would be worth it.
And on the last part, well, "Abhor the sin, not the sinner." Christians nowadays feel that other religions are a fact of life, bad, etc. I don't understand that. Everyone can change. Heck, even Darwin became a Christian.

I wanted to say the links ( 1 page back)from Della & Peet are excellant.
History of the church, Mary, books of the bible removed.

Most people on this thread are familiar with this history. For those not; these are excellant entries.I needed to review some facts and learned a thing or two iin the process!

OK, but what did it really accomplish? since the old beliefs were mostly not standardised (least not the really old ones) and in the case of the Roman/Greek pantheisms were more like your hulking monstrosity.
But they weren't martyrs for that reason. They were killed for refusing to recant their faith, which is a personal reason. It wasn't necessarily the evangelising that made
I don't believe people dying for their beliefs makes any difference at all. Sorry, but there it is- you are dead, the beliefs you personally held (which by nature are unique, tho the differences may be infintesimal) are dead with you. You can no longer play an active part in furthering your cause. All that you become is a name for future followers to 'thank', and nothing to a society in which people were executed as a normality. The death of an undesirable is something that changes no believer in the system opposing them, just like the execution of a criminal will not sway those who support the death penalty. Better to remain alive doing what you can, by subversive means if you want to take the risk, but I don't see anything 'cowardly' in superficial confirmation, likewise nothing courageous about using your religion to get you killed.

I really doubt you would rather have been alive then. Seriously, think about it. It's noble if those are your reasons for thinking so, but you can still 'save souls' (if that's what you believe... sorry, but that sounds alarms in this corner) by living, today, and probably far more than then. And do much practical good besides.

Believing that everyone can change is a fine thing. Hope, basically. However, believing that everyone has it in them to become a Christian is a bit dubious to me... especially if you equate 'Christian' with 'Good person' (suggested by the 'bad' existence of other beliefs). Even more dubiously, a lot of people who think like that will then get it into their heads to give the unbelievers a nudge, since if they *can* change why not speed them along? And who better to do it than a Christian?

You referring to Darwin's famous deathbed recantation? I think that one's a a myth, unfortunately.

"...you are dead, the beliefs you personally held (which by nature are unique, tho the differences may be infintesimal) are dead with you. You can no longer play an active part in furthering your cause..."

Since you can no longer explain the details of your personal belief, those that follow can delude themselves that you believed *exactly* the same things that they do, and died for it, even if each of them believes something different. Thus, lots of deaths actually help to convince those following that many people shared their beliefs, as there's no-one around to contradict them.