h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Just finished watching the Channel Four coverage of the first public Autopsy for 175 years performed earlier in London. I'm wondering what everyone else thought.

Personally I found it absolutely fascinating. It could have been a little more detailed with what was shown and less about the "respect for the dead" but otherwise, I believe it was a great step forward in society. Absolutely enthralling...

Aha, it's you! I was going to start the thread if there wasn't one.
Something that everyone should keep in mind- the CORPSE was DEAD. He *doesn't care* what's happening to him. I know plenty of people personally who would not mind being autopsied publicly, or plastinised- I am one. (s'long as I get to choose the position.)
It wasn't sensational. There was minimal fuss, mess and pretentious speeches. It was certainly entertaining, but what is wrong with that? That needn't mean it's frippery. And educational in that autopsies are never seen by laypeople and it is not ghoulishness which drives us but curiosity. Ghouls would in fact have been disappointed.
I have been for Von Hagens ever since I heard of him, which was years ago before Bodyworlds was brought to the UK and, strangely, there was little media outrage. Since then I have noticed a hint of anti-German sentiment- phrases like 'chillingly Teutonic' etc. (and notice the disapproving man on the programme said that the Germans involved were showy and disgraceful, whereas 'our English pathologist was excellent' yet there wasn't much to tell between their styles of presentation, apart from language skills.) and of course allusions to WWII. Which is more dubious than any accusation levelled at the man himself.
Out of other methods of preserving the body, plastination seems the most pleasant. Or least unpleasant. (They can gild it, if you want, how 'bout that? A nice shiny gold coating full of decompost.) AFAICS there is no use for a body after death apart from to look at, and you look at it to learn about it. Anatomy may not be particularly useful to everyday doings but it is interesting, like those who study engine parts. When you bury someone, you don't visit their corpse, but the memory of them preserved in a fitting monument. How is this- if consent was given, which it was- worse than consigning something to the ground to be mulched? Bodies have to be disposed of, you may as well learn something.
Actually I have a use for anatomy in that I draw things. (Otherwise, explain the abundance of artists' anatomy books and models.) To me, complaints along the line of 'Why does anyone need to look at it', is akin to 'Why do you have to draw *nude* models? Aren't they just the same with their clothes on?' Course not, and it is both fascinating and useful to see the underlying structure.
(Is the exhibition still on, btw?)

I BELIEVE that the exhibition is on for a little while. They had footage of it in the news etc. I wish I could get down to see it, but there's no way on earth I'd find the money or means.

I have a totally honest curiousity of death. I was vaccinated against death when I was about 6 - I caught a glimpse of my grandmothers rigamortis stricken body when I shouldn't have. It wasn't pleasant, but it did me the world of good. Bodies are bodies, not people...people are the consciousness, the bodies are the connection to the outside world. The programme exploded the myth of the human body being sacred posthumously. All it is, is flesh and fat and bone. All it takes to pull it apart, are blades and saws and hands. There is nothing special about us. One of the last myths that we hald about ourselves is over...all we need now is for the extra-terrestrials to come down and prove we aren't the superior species! Woohoo!


And what did you mean
>aha! it's you<

I hope so. I have to go on a uni trip to London on the 5th, and now have 3 exhibitions to see.
Death itself, i.e what we see of it and what happens, is pretty unspectacular. What interests me- I suppose most people- is why we're so touchy about it as a process, and all the curious ritualistic behaviours adopted to avoid being bothered by it. I'm not saying that respectful behaviour around the bereaved, i.e. not mentioning the dead person irreverently, should be stopped. That's not really death, but emotions and feelings should be respected. But, bodies, cessation of life, disposal of the corpse? as u say that's not the person.
I find anatomy fascinating as a subject entirely separate from death.
I also think it's preposterous to attach feelings to a dead thing. It has none any more. It might inspire them, and the wishes of its former family respected, but *to a degree*- no one, technically, owns the body. 'Dignity after death'- there is no dignity in being awash with microbes.

Well to a certain point, there is sensibility in "respecting" the dead body - stops the transaction of any germs. I suppose what one has to remember about this society, is that it is based on a bunch of rules that were really only meant to limit the spread of disease. Just a shame people can't realise that!

But yeh. Dead body, not a person, VERY interesting.
I'm still after a "different" opinion around here. I'm sure there are some conservative people around here. All I seem to talk to are enlightened intelligent, witty and creative types. Gets a bit dull afer a while

One word...

...Ewwwww...

That would be the typical American response, I believe. And the American way of showing such an autopsy would to have a Fox special entitled "When Good Corpses Go Bad II." Or they would try to make it a reality game show..."The Deadest Link"

Wampus

*heehee*

I love those Fox specials.

"When Animals attack!!!!"

I did think that perhaps HBO would cover it though.

*knows too much about a country she has never been to*

On the news last night, there were people moaning about it - well, don't watch or go to it!

It's all simple enough to avoid, for heaven's sake. It really is time we moved out of the Dark Ages.

Good on the bloke - I cannot recommend Body Worlds highly enough, I found it not only engrossing but highly moving as well.

I know. It's like it is *impossible* for people to turn off their TV...

WHAT! Turn our tv off! What are we supposed to do then? Talk to each other?

Well, granted, Mrs the Wife might be short of entertainment under those circumstances...

>I know. It's like it is *impossible* for people to turn off their TV...

That's not true. I did just that as I wasn't too interested to watch the programme. I wouldn't go to the exhibitions or real autopsies if they were held just down the street as I get a bit queasy when live people chop other people living or dead up. No great moral objection though.

How is this sort of thing a great step forward for society?

Om

>How is this sort of thing a great step forward for society?<

It demonstrates that death is nothing to be feared, that there is no need to hold onto the stigma of a dead body, and that new things are fascinating. Autopsies in the past have ultimately led to the medical care we receive now, and will improve medical care in the future.

Are you one of those people that don't like the sight of blood? I used to recoil at the sight of death, but once you get past the initial fear, it really is a fascinating topic

I got seriously put off the chopped up people thing after being tricked into watching a film containg autopsies of drug OD victims at the start of my college course. This was part of the colleges's scheme to persuade us students that injecting yourself with exotic substances is a bad thing.

The sight of blood is no big problem to me unless it is my own and there is lots of it on the outside.

>It demonstrates that death is nothing to be feared, that there is no need to hold onto the stigma of a dead body

I thought that we are already moving away from that way of thinking.
Death holds no fears but dying should.

Why should dying be feared? It's inevitable!! No point fearing something you have no control over.

When I was 11 years old, my mother died. I was off school and she was very ill and passed away in her bed. Everyone was out for a couple of hours, so when I realised what had happened I called the ambulance. While I waited, I realised that all the pain had left her face and she looked like my mum again! After that, death did not seem so scary

Just getting back to the programme for a moment...
I turned off and went to bed just as they were taking the scalp off. Not because I'm squeamish but because it was so boring!
The Grauniad described the C4 camera crew as "reluctant", which pretty much sums it up. If you're going to show this, and claim it's educational, then you need to be able to see it properly! The viewer saw less than someone sat in the back row of the audience, even though there was a camera hovering right next to the table.
Maybe it got better later, but I had a genuine interest in seeing the real inside of a body rather than textbook illustrations and found it very disappointing. Not to mention the 15 minutes of drivel at the start of the programme before the cutting started.

As for it being illegal - that's just damn stupid. There must be a way of legislating to allow it in appropriate settings, although I did find this a bit too "showbusiness".
And it's strange that TV can show pictures of operations on live subjects but not autopsies.

How was it "showbusiness"? I can't understand the use of this word. I mean, should they have been dressed in black, scenting the dead body, playing classical music in the background? I didn't see any fireworks, or a big "Roll up Roll up" sign on the outside, or even HEAR about it until yesterday afternoon (and I'm constantly in touch with the news)...it was conducted (albeit with a language barrier) in an informative manner, because the audience weren't medical students, they were people; and was very clean and simple proceedure. The only element of entertainment was perhaps the presence of camera's...and even that wasn't too huge. The term was used by the doctors, who I assume only used that ebcause they felt bitter that their elite was being exposed to reality.

But I have to agree. I wanted closeups too. They did go into more detail when examining the organs...so maybe you shouldn't have gone to bed. The sliced apart brain was interesting...

Maybe not showing a close up of the inside of the body was a way of getting the public to go to the exhibition, where you can see it all.