h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I haven't read the whole thread and this is just to ste about the ecstasy reclasification, 50 people a year die from ecstacy, I think that is reason enough to ban it.

Yes I know people die from alcohol and smoking too but usually through overdose or drink driving etc. the figures are because people take ecstasy and either drink too much or not enough. It's a fine line and I personally am all for raising it's class.

Mel *just sticking her oar in as usual!*

Ecstasy is already class A. I have to say I was shocked at nearly 50 deaths in a year in England and Wales. The reasoning given on news reports was falling prices and higher concentrations. But really it's down to ignorance.

I have always been cautious in my use, but of the huge number of ecstasy takers, some quite obviously see them as sweets. Once you've taken one, your ability to refuse another is diminished. Physically, it takes quite a bit of effort to drink enough to endanger your life, but, pop a couple of pills in your mouth...

As I said, there are perhaps 500,000 people taking pills every weekend, so the current policy on ecstasy is obviously having no effect. At the very least, it would be sensible to warn users more clearly about the dangers, and perhaps have content analysts onsite to let people know what they are getting.

the only way we can deal with the ecstasy problem is to have on-site content analysis - this has to be seen to be anonymous - coupled with on-site in your face education.

the current drugs policies in the western world do not work and are having the same effect as alcohol prohibition did in the US in the last century - putting big money into the hands of organised crime.

we need to have a much more enlightened and imaginative approach to this problem.

Why-aye man!

Ecstasy: 50 deaths out of 500,000 users per year = 1 in 10,000

Cigarettes: 110,000 deaths out of 18,000,000 users per year = 1 in 164

interesting numbers...

It's not just getting a dud though it is as you say making sure that people only take the right dose.

Mel

indeed they are GD but duty and tax revenue from ecstasy £NIL from cigarettes - £billions - (too lazy to look up exact figures).

therefore the government has a vested interest in allowing cigarette use to continue despite the death toll.

CMaster...
I'm not afraid of Blues Shark....

not when he's not here!

I do remember seeing an analysis of the positive benefits to the UK economy of having one third of the population addicted to cigarettes. I just wish I could find it again. In summary the points were:

Its not only the tax revenue that the government gains. There are also the pensions they don't have to pay, along with the pensions from the insurance companies etc.
Even the health costs are a non recurrent saving. Lung cancer is a pretty cheap disease, Alzheimers for example, caught ten years later is damn pricey.
Ultimately the UK economy would be plunged into serious trouble if we all gave up tomorrow.

But more to the point, it isn't very often that it's one ciggarette that kills you, it's the build up of crud in your lungs With ecstasy it's often an allergic reaction type thing, often the first time, and there are no warnings and no cures.

Mel

Ban peanuts today! Save a life tommorrow!

Most of the allergic reactions to exstasy are probably to do with contaninants. Allergic reactions also occur with all sorts of drugs licenced in the UK (asperin, paracetamol, penecillin etc) so this is an unlikely cause of death.

The other thing about exstacy death is, how many of the people who die combined the drug with alcohol, should some of these 50 also be recorded as alchol related death or death due to taking a coctail of drugs?

I honestly dont believe most of the "first time". I know that when I took E my friends would have told everyone it was my first time, just to spare my parents (who wouldnt like the idea of their son being a c;lass A user).

So I reckon there sould be measures for testing quality and stregnth of pills. Not that I advocate the use of exstacy I'm convinsed it caused me a long bout of depression, but then with little research its hard to tell.

ali

i read these stats somewhere,(i could be making it up) but apparently well over 1 million people take ecasty every week. and that more people are killed each year by lettuce than ecstasy .

E's a strange one - again its pay your money and take your choice when it comes to drugs. drug testing tables (i think they have these in holland) should be available - its not just a case of taking a dud (more fool you if you do) but all the other dangerous stuff it can be made with.

but more importantly, education - we need to educate about the dangers of taking the stuff in the first place. all those people take it every week, not all of them (thankfully) have an allergic reaction. but they leave themselves open to depression in later life. i've certainly got friends who are experiencing problems, although taking E hasn't caused their problems, it certainly hasn't helped.

What worries me is that Ecstasy affects your brain chemistry and I doubt there have been many studies on the long-term effects of repeated dosing because it hasn't been around that long.

In 20 years time are we going to be faced with a huge medical bill to manage the problems caused by the widespread use now?

Remember that when ciggies first came on to the market they were considered to be harmless (even advertised as a health product *boggles*) and it took a long time to get the public educated about long-term problems (like lung cancer) when it first began clear that there was a link.

I don't want to get into a fags vs drugs debate - one is definitely harmful, the other has not been proved detrimental to health (remember that they said something like that about british beef...)

k

'Zactly my thoughts Spiff, only I had written a 3 paragraph monster posting to get the point across! Your version is so much more succinct!

A friend of mine died, most probably of ecstacy and alchohol mixed.

I don't have much else to say about this, except that he knew the risks associated with all the drugs he took. And that I still miss him.



B

kelli just being a bit pedantic, by definition, any drug which has a high be it E, caffine or booze affects your brain chemisty.

I agree about the potential time bomb but if this is so I feel we should already be starting to see it or will be sseing it soon as although E has been round since the 1920's it has only been widely used since ~1988. You would expect to be seeing the first wave of longterm effects kicking in soon, fingers crossed it dosn't happen.

Just to stir up the debate a bit the SSuI drugs (seroxat, prozac etc) all act in a very similar manner to e (at least on seretonin neurones)but are considred quite safe, but makes you wonder what the long term effect of these drugs is

Prozax is a lethal drug, I have only ever seen it ruin lives, the only time I've seen it have good effect is when it's used to counteract obsessive compulsive disorder.

btw did you know that it takes approximately 5 mins to get a prescription of prozac in the UK and they don't tell you it's addictive and has major side affects.

Peanut allergies are usually anaphylactic (sp?) and will often (though admittedly not always) have a warning sign the first time round, trouble is people just take this as an intollerance and don't worry to get it checked out or avoid the 'may contain nuts' foods. Therefore next time when they expect just to get ill they end up going anaphylatic which require immediate hospitalisation. known sufferers will sometimes carry an adrenelin injection pen around with them to help counteract an attack.

Mel

Yep, that is very pedantic and misses the point of what I was trying to say.

There is a difference between drugs like nicotine which have an effect on the mood, but not on the structures of the brain, and drugs like cannabis, which effect both.

I do not know which category the drugs Kelli was referring to fall into, but I assumed from the context that she meant the latter.

B