A Conversation for Ask h2g2
Wreaked it is
Is mise Duncan Posted Jul 10, 2001
The weight of evidence seems to favour "wreaked"....especially when used with vengance.
"Henry, thus slighted by the Dauphin wreaked a terrible vengance"
Reeking
Kaeori Posted Jul 10, 2001
Ah, good one, that's some heavy evidence in my favor!
Now, all I need is some pseudo-Shakespearian quotations, and such like. Fortunately, 'wroke' is good for rhymes.
Reeking
Mycroft Posted Jul 10, 2001
I really should've known this as it appears in 'The Faerie Queene' and 'Troilus and Criseyde': 'wroke' and 'wroken' are both past participles of 'wreak', albeit obsolete ones.
As you say, Kaeori, it's excellent for rhymes and almost always appears at the end of a line as a result This bit of pseudo-Shakespeare comes from 'Confessio Amantis' by Chaucer's friend John Gower:
A vois was herd, whan that they felle,
Which seide, "O dampned man to helle,
Lo, thus hath god the sclaundre wroke
That thou ayein Constance hast spoke:
Beknow the sothe er that thou dye."
And he told out his felonie,
Camp as Christmas..?
Is mise Duncan Posted Jul 11, 2001
Where does the usage of the word "camp" meaning effeminate come form?
Camp as Christmas..?
Munchkin Posted Jul 11, 2001
Perchance from what large groups of men, isolated in a (military) camp are said to get up to.
Singing, drinking and barbequeing that is
Camp as Christmas..?
Wand'rin star Posted Jul 11, 2001
It's a Polari term (language that was used in the theatre & circus, but not written down until very recently, eg "How bona to vada your eek")Popularised in England by the gay characters Julian & Sandy in "Round the Horne" in the 60s, which is about when gays were starting to come out. But it's much earlier than mid 20th century as a couple of men were prosecuted in London in 1870 for "campish undertakings".
Camp as Christmas..?
Is mise Duncan Posted Jul 11, 2001
I did find this possibility:
"Camp, Walter Chauncey. 1859-1925.
American football coach and promoter who developed many of the sport's basic rules."
but it seems farfetched.
Also perhaps from rhyming slang "camping tent" ? Nah...
Camp as Christmas..?
Argon0 (50 and feeling it - back for a bit) Posted Jul 11, 2001
Maybe its a reference to Scouts Camp..(all boys together?) Or possibly its an acronym...
Camp as Christmas..?
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Jul 11, 2001
Hmmm ..never heard (or at least never understood) camp in that context before. Here in North Am, the word was used in the mid to late sixties to mean outrageously kitsch and disposable. To my ears 'campy' always meant like temporary/insubstantial/flashy and I'd get a subliminal image of a battered Coleman camp stove and a gawdy coloured pup tent (being as they are the temporary, insubstantial, flashy substitutes for real housing and real cookers). It was applied to experimental theatre and art of the period which had no apparent lasting value, but was 'happening', however briefly. At the time Warhol's Soup Can Labels were considered marginally camp by severe critics. His long forgotten imitators were pure camp.
I shall henceforth be more discerning, in the unlikely event that an occassion should arise, when I might want to call something 'campy'.
~jwf~
Camp as Christmas..?
Mycroft Posted Jul 11, 2001
I've seen this one before - possibly on this very thread. It's supposed to be a Polari acronym - Known As Male Prostitute - so both Wand'rin Star and Argon0 would be right .
I hope it's wrong though: I like the idea of it being from rhyming slang. Does anyone want to come up with a plausible justification for Camptown races being the source?
Camp as Christmas..?
Wand'rin star Posted Jul 11, 2001
I don't think it was an acronym -too early. But there's a lot of rhyming slang in Polari. So perhaps it's "camp tent" for "bent"?
Camp as Christmas..?
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Jul 11, 2001
The late and very great Stephen Foster, father of 'popular' music, wrote Camptown Races (and dozens of others we'd all recognise enough to sing along) based on his white-trash lifestyle of living and working and drinking among newly freed blacks in post-Civil War America (c1865-1880). Mostly in Texas and points west.
'Camptown' would have been any temporary tented community where itinerant blacks would live near construction projects like railroads or seasonal farming operations.
Foster died drunk and hungover in Harlem, falling and banging his head on a porcelain sink. He was white.
peace
~jwf~
Camp as Christmas..?
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Jul 11, 2001
Oh ..the tents were Army surplus ..after the war ..and proved handy for the westward expansion.
Key: Complain about this post
Wreaked it is
- 1961: Is mise Duncan (Jul 10, 2001)
- 1962: Kaeori (Jul 10, 2001)
- 1963: Kaeori (Jul 10, 2001)
- 1964: Mycroft (Jul 10, 2001)
- 1965: Kaeori (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1966: Is mise Duncan (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1967: Munchkin (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1968: Wand'rin star (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1969: Is mise Duncan (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1970: Kaeori (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1971: Wand'rin star (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1972: Wand'rin star (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1973: Kaeori (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1974: Argon0 (50 and feeling it - back for a bit) (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1975: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1976: Mycroft (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1977: Wand'rin star (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1978: Bald Bloke (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1979: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Jul 11, 2001)
- 1980: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Jul 11, 2001)
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