h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Both while and whilst mean during. Whilst is a more archaic form than while. But as Teaswill has pointed out, while can also mean "on the other hand". There's certainly no harm in using "while" in all cases.

In my usual, half-cocked-but-I-hope-it-inspires-someone-who-really-knows way, may I suggest that the suffixial form 'st' is used as an ending on many words.

last, last and last
list and lust
first
best
breast
quest
west/east
lest/least
dust
durst
worst
curst
burst
behest
bequest

What other examples are there and is there a 'lost' suffix or an archaic declension at work here that once indicated some context or implied content to the odd mix of noun and verbal root words it got stuck onto?


~jwf~

durst? Thou didst durst to do it?
curst?? nope, not a clue!

Thinking about it, I guess I think of 'whilst' as being in the past, usually fairly immediate and 'while' being the present or future.
But I'll assume that is just me being odd and defer to Gnomon (which is usually a safe bet )

jwf, I've gone through all those words ending in st. -st was an ending in two cases in Old English, one which survives to today:

-st can be added to an adjective or adverb to make it superlative, so:

worse --> worst
more --> most
late --> latest and last
better --> betst, and later best

-st was added to a verb for the second person singular case:

"Wouldst thou?"

Other than that,

there's no real pattern to the rest of them that might indicate a lost ending:

curst - an alternative spelling of cursed
durst - probably from second person singular darest
lust, east, west - all normal words in Old English
behest - from OE behaes, with the t added later.

Last, to endure, and last, a form used by a cobbler, both come from Old English last meaning a footprint. To last meant to follow in the footprints of someone, then it meant to follow a long way, then to endure.

Cheers Gnomon.
SUPERLATIVES!
Of course! That's the 'lost' formation I was talking about but they weren't really lost were they, just misplaced in my dusty memory. I feel dumb, dumber and dumbest for that lapse of intelligence.

And as you point out, most other '-st' words are part of the second person singular declension of some older verbs like durst, wouldst and canst (thou) or a form of past tense like 'curst' and 'burst'.
You also noted many are just good old nouns that end up ending in '-st', like nest, breast, rust and rest.

But what part of speech is 'whilst'?
It must be an adverb, as in "Whilst he goeth.."
And are there others besides "Lest he goeth.."?

Both seem to be adverbial clauses setting up a modification of some further condition or circumstance such as "Whilst the sun shines, we shall make hay." Or "I have chained her to a fence, lest she goeth."

Now I can't get "wouldst, shouldst and couldst" out of my head. And they seem to be attaching themselves to third person formations like "Wouldst he goeth, shouldst he goeth..." They sorta sound old-fashioned but my mind tells me they are wrong. I am hoping this is just a remnant from some TV comedy skit spoofing old fashioned manners of speech by deliberate incorrect usage, like "Yee Oldie Inne".


~jwf~

Adding to the random words, there are the various 'oist' ones as well

foist
hoist
joist
moist

Not particularly illuminating, but I haven't posted for quite a while.

The st in lest is a complete Red Herring. Lest comes from the Old English three word phrase 'thy laes the', which means 'for fear that'. The s is from a different word than the t. It's just been abbreviated to one word.

Whilst was originally while, then an s was added to make whiles. I believe it is still whiles in Scotland. Finally a t was added. Both these additions seem to have served no purpose.

The only conclusion I can come to from all of this is that the Germanic races, including the English, seem to find -st a very easy thing to say at the end of words. They often add -st to words that don't need it and words ending in -sp, -sk etc get changed to st.

When is it OK to say "persons" for "people" in your opinion(s)?
Slightly irrelevant usages that I DO accept:
"I bought a two-person umbrella as a present for the Spearcarrier"
"Space for five persons or two cows" (no mention of whether these persons have to be personable) Personally, I do not use "persons" unless in my Lady Bracknell persona

hmm, yes, 'persons' does carry, to me, overtones of the upper classes talking about the lower classes in particularly condescending tones.

"And you can tell those 'persons' not to come round here again!"

or some such.

Have we done 'gotten'? I noticed it today in the entry on Swedish Government (A938919). It always strikes me as very archaic, but I suppose it is just American. Would any of our British contributors use it in normal speech?

It was done (donen?) at some point in the past.
UKians would consider it to sound awkward and archaic (well they would from my neck of the woods) however 'begotten' and 'misbegotten' are stil current if not eactly day to day usage.

I believe the concensus was that it was in fact a perfectly correct form (since it is old english).

Have we ever done a comparison of current / archaic words compared UK / USA / Canada / Oz / NZ and other english speakers?

For example we have 'gotten' current in USA but archaic in UK.
'Fortnight' is archaic in USA but current in UK.

Any others?

re: gotten. I use it sometimes in speech but not in formal writing. As in: It's gotten a bit colder today.

Something that struck me as strange today as I started reading Beowulf is line 11 that says "þæt wæs göd cyning!" Which is pronounced "That was good kning!"* but translates to "That was one good king!" Just seemed odd that that line doesn't need much work done

*þ is the lower case thorn - the upper case looks like a Y - hence the confusion with Ye Olde Tea Shoppe - the old tea shop.

Liam.

Is "Bespoke" not used in American English? If this is so what is the equivalent?

custom-made or tailored

So why Bespoke then? Is it really derived from the same root as spoke? Bespoken? Something that is made to an agreed design that you have spoken about? Or am I off up the garden path here?

"So why Bespoke then?" .... Just because it is.
"Is it really derived from the same root as spoke?" ... Yes.
"Bespoken?" ... Yes
"Something that is made to an agreed design that you have spoken about?" ... Yes
"Or am I off up the garden path here?" ... No

would some kind and deranged person give me a list of the nicknames
and
perjoratives used for the various regions of England proper?

I'm having a bit of trouble with the slangish geography on H2

Any in particular?

Loathe to start this off without a hint

Okay... um, Geordies...

Yeah , and how do you pronounce it?
Like George or Gord?

~jwf~