A Conversation for Ask h2g2
Bad grammar, or grammar to impress?...
Wand'rin star Posted Oct 11, 2001
(a) he said it once only
(b) he said it at least once
The grammar aimed at is that which other people will (A) understand in the way that you meant it and (B) not be kaughed at
Bad grammar, or grammar to impress?...
Solsbury Posted Oct 11, 2001
kaughed?
Is that a cross between a laugh and a cough?
Bad grammar, or grammar to impress?...
manolan Posted Oct 11, 2001
I agree with Wand'rin Star, but with a subtle twist.
The form with "has" is called the perfective aspect of the verb. Technically, in grammar, it means something which has happened in the past, but has some relevance to the present. So, "he said" is a direct report: you're referring to a specific occasion, that's why it implies "he said it once". "He has said" refers to a non-specific time in the past. It implies that it is recent and that the speaker/writer expects that "he" would say the same thing now (i.e. this is a view that "he" holds). If you're being pedantic, you could argue that it is often used in exactly the opposite case: to contrast what he has said that somehow contradicts something else.
Bad grammar, or grammar to impress?...
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Oct 11, 2001
RE:
> you could argue... <
That's because the 'has' formation postulates a premise. (1)
And god knows politicians never keep their premises.
~jwf~
(1) a premise is like a theory - it demands discussion and polarised debate - one would use the 'has' formation, especially, to introduce an argument against a stated premise.
Bad grammar, or grammar to impress?...
Bald Bloke Posted Oct 11, 2001
I'm with W on this
TB has said = he said it at least once in the past even if he changed his story later(we don't have it on the tape).
TB said = we have it on the tape.
# I love you, Semantics #
plaguesville Posted Oct 12, 2001
Yep, Manolan,
but with a small equivocation:
he said = direct report,
he has said = he said it on an unspecified occasion,
but if heading for an argument or attempt to discredit, then
he had said.
(Thinks)
"He said that he has said that he had said that he would buy me an ice cream, but he forgot."
H'mmm.
Backpedalling
Mycroft Posted Oct 12, 2001
Buff in the sense of polishing, the colour, and an expert all stem from buffe - French for buffalo: the hides got called buffs, and by association the colour of buffalo hides became buff too; watchmakers and jewellers used buff for polishing, which created the verb; New York volunteer firemen were known as buffs because of their uniform, and the word got transferred to apply to mean any volunteer or enthusiast.
Backpedalling
~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum Posted Oct 13, 2001
If Mycroft is to be believed (and I suggest he is in this case) then logic dictates that "bare buff" comes from this same source. There is no reason to suspect we are being buffaloed this time.
Backpedalling
Mycroft Posted Oct 13, 2001
Logic is right, John: being in the buff means you're wearing nothing but your hide. Plaguesville's Kipling quote has the same provenance, albeit a different meaning. To be in buff meant to be in the army, as many uniforms of the 16th and 17th centuries were made from buffalo hide.
Backpedalling
Argon0 (50 and feeling it - back for a bit) Posted Oct 15, 2001
Shirley not their whole Uniforms? Maybe their Boots or their Uniforms were buff in colour....
Backpedalling
Mycroft Posted Oct 15, 2001
Don't call me Shirley!
No, not their whole uniforms - although a few regiments did sport attire from the Davy Crockett collection. I should have said 'buff leather' rather than 'buffalo hide', as most buff doesn't even come from buffalos. Just to confuse things, elements of many soldiers' uniforms were buff in colour, but not made from buff leather, while most of the bits that were made from buff got dyed or bleached. All the white straps and details on an English redcoat's jacket, for example, were made from buff.
Backpedalling
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Oct 15, 2001
Is buffalo hide made from the Old World Water Buffalo or is it from the American Buffalo (Bison)?
Backpedalling
Mycroft Posted Oct 15, 2001
It refers to the Old World one. The only meaning of buff to come out of the USA is the enthusiastic one.
Key: Complain about this post
Bad grammar, or grammar to impress?...
- 2741: Wand'rin star (Oct 11, 2001)
- 2742: Solsbury (Oct 11, 2001)
- 2743: Wand'rin star (Oct 11, 2001)
- 2744: Kaeori (Oct 11, 2001)
- 2745: manolan (Oct 11, 2001)
- 2746: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Oct 11, 2001)
- 2747: Bald Bloke (Oct 11, 2001)
- 2748: plaguesville (Oct 12, 2001)
- 2749: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Oct 12, 2001)
- 2750: Wand'rin star (Oct 12, 2001)
- 2751: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Oct 12, 2001)
- 2752: Solsbury (Oct 12, 2001)
- 2753: Mycroft (Oct 12, 2001)
- 2754: plaguesville (Oct 12, 2001)
- 2755: ~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum (Oct 13, 2001)
- 2756: Mycroft (Oct 13, 2001)
- 2757: Argon0 (50 and feeling it - back for a bit) (Oct 15, 2001)
- 2758: Mycroft (Oct 15, 2001)
- 2759: Gnomon - time to move on (Oct 15, 2001)
- 2760: Mycroft (Oct 15, 2001)
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