h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Yes, but presumably that's in 2011, whereas the rest of the action takes place in 1969.


Geggs

whereas the rest of the action takes place in 1969.

later in the doctors time line!!!!

the master is dead!!!!

the doctor cannot go back to a time before his death because the master won't be there, even if he was before!!

timey wimey paradox and all that

What's the Master got to do with it? Are you suggesting he's in the spacesuit?


Geggs

The Master? When did he come in?
Tbh I can't remember what happened to him at the end of Tennant's last episode.

D'oh. Of course it happened present day. I forgot about...what's his name, the guy with the petrol...who was of course much younger when the Doc did his bit with the moon landing.

Must pay attention more.

Deb

He disappear off into the timey-wimey bubble thing that the rest of the Time Lords are trapped in, trying to kill them all.


Geggs

The Master, that is, not CED3.


Geggs

my point being that unless a person is fixed in time(history books) when they die in the doctors time line, they are removed from history and the doctor cannot go back to an earlier time and interact with them

and before you throw in river, he hasnt finished this backward relashion ship with her yet, once he has met her for her first time, that little loop will be closed and she will be dead and he wont be able to travel to a place he knows she will be, because she will not be there

the same with the silents they have been killed off, they have been removed from history, that is why the silent ship in the lodger was abandoned, a little bit of temporal flotsam and jetsam

It was not my understanding that the Silence we killed off necessarily, just threatened by humans post-1969 moon landings.

More flippantly, how do the Silence get their jackets on? Their hands are too big.

My current speculation about episode 1&2 and the Doctor's death is a two universe theory. I think there may be two of everyone, except possibly Amy. I think the Doctor's question to Rory, about remembering waiting 2000 years was a way of telling which universe the Doctor was in at the time. I am wasting way too much time trying to crack this one.

Actually, I disagree. I think the Doctor could go back and interact with past versions of friends and foes. Generally he doesn't because of the paradoxes that would result, but if he could deal with that then there's nothing (apart from his innate sense of what can change and what can't) to stop him from doing so.


Geggs

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of cases in both old and new Who with contradict that theory, Taff... How would some of the historical stories work if the Doctor cannot go back and meet someone he's previously known after they're dead?

Stay well away from the Doctor Who IMDB page - SPOILERS!

I disagree with Taff too.

Mention of River reminds me though - it seems to now be accepted that the Doc and River are meeting in *exactly* the reverse order. F'rinstance, when River finds out it's the first time the Doc has kissed her, she immediately concludes it's the last time she will kiss him.

Is there now some kind of rule/pattern that they are following? Up until now, they had seemed to be meeting each other at random, and it was just coincidence that River dies the first time the Doc meets her. After all, why bother with all that 'have we done xxx yet' stuff if they're going in exactly reverse order?

Gif

Well, what happened in the first ep pretty much contradicts them meeting in exactly reverse order because logically that would have had to been the last time she saw him ever.

This is all pretty head hurty but surely not?

Every time we meet River it is "prior" (at least from her perspective) to the other events we have seen. So the "River" from the last episode doesnt know about the Pandorica, THe angels or the Vashtu Nerada because for her they haven't happened yet.

At least that is the way I read it.

FB

I'm confused about this too. If they are meeting in reverse order then why does River open her diary to ask if he remembers previous times they've met? But if they are meeting at random then why is she so sure that this is the last time she'll kiss him?

Maybe the general trend is for them to be heading in opposite directions, but there are a few occasions when they meet at random times in their individual timelines. I got the impression this meeting was after the Pandorica Opens for River: she just seems that bit more confident. She also makes reference to previous escapes from the Stormcage and I assumed one of those was the one shown at the start of TPO.

Is River sure that this is the last kiss, or is it just that she's suddenly realised that there must be a last kiss, and this *could* be it?


Geggs

Last kiss...a kiss...meh who cares? The problem with trying to second guess story arcs like this is that it makes it more complicated than it is giving succour to the brainless arses who complain that 'Dr Who is too complicated and confusing.' I've never seen a TV show plot that has been too complicated when it's been explained at the end of the arc. Babylon 5 had and essentially 5 year story arc where huge amounts of stuff was unexplained til the end and basically the explanation of the story was fairly simple but that did not nullify the puzzlement through out the show and make people go: 'Is that it? Was it 'that simple'?

Well yes it was 'that simple' but only one person actually worked out the Babylon 5 story arc but even she didn't believe she had the correct explanation.

I know people enjoy trying to work out story arcs but it just fuels the view that it's too complicated when we should all just watch it without trying to work out what is going on mainly because civilians brains start frying...hopefully the general pubelic will realise that not having everything explained during one show is not a bad thing.

It should also indicate something I said during RTD's tenure that RTD never did story arcs he simply did maguffins during a season which people could cope with...now we have true story arcs people are complaining that their little brains can;t cope...obviously I'm not talking about anyone on this thread...no sirrie.

The good thing is that viewing figures are as high as they ever were and there may actually be someone in the BBC who understand what Steve M is doing and realising it's great drama...wouldn't that be nice?

2 universes, 2 time streams, 2 doctors, 1 dies

which rory was that???....i'm a nurse

last ep, rory was a 2000 year old plastic roman

there are 2 story lines running parralel, they are just so similar we cant tell them apart