h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I agree. I've also never heard much opposition to it.

I think democracy as we know it is no more.

Abraham Lincoln said "Government of the people by the people for the people shall not perish from the Earth". The governments we are familiar with might seem democratic but they are far from such. Having the right to vote is all well and good, but if your choices are limited to aging middle-class WASPs then it can hardly be a government "for the people", especially when so many's votes are cast on the spin and illusion of election campaigns. While "democracy" may depend on the choice of the people, the systems that decide who is elected are not representative of the people, and those who succeed are rarely if ever accountable to the people.

Hi everybody!

I've just dropped onto your planet from another passing Vogon's ship. Being curious by trade, I'd like to know more about you earthlings, and so I started (with a little help of my still imperfect translation device) a new thread "Why should people love Americans?"

Perhaps, you'll help me out by visiting it?

tjapljap

Last useful thing I learned from a Teenager?
Last really, really useful thing?

Well...that would have to be a crash course in the way the UK education system works. It helped that the young lady in question is working her way towards a B.Ed/PGCE but nevertheless, useful information from a teenager.

Oh, and I also got some useful tips from a 14 year old recently - but if you aren't interested in C++ I guess that might not count. Helped me, though.

As I said at the end of my post in which I compared the USA to a teenager, we could all stand to learn a few things from the USA. At no time did I claim that older nations are better or wiser.

And since I stand by my comment that the US is a teenager, but take your advice onboard:

GROW UP!
GET A JOB!
AND A HAIRCUT!

*Abraham Lincoln said "Government of the people by the people for the people shall not perish from the Earth".*

Mayhe that helps explain why half the Americans of the time hated him

...or to put it another way...

Maybe that helps explain why half the Americans of the time hated him

Our electoral system has been picked on enough. This issue has been done to death recently.

First of all we are not a true democracy in the sense every vote counts. We are a democratic republic. And it works best for us because of states that have few people compared to states that have tens of millions. YOu see we don't want New York and LA to pick our president for us. WHat do they know or care about the farmer in Idaho? And would you rather have a president who got 20% of the vote? If we were as everyone wants us to be that would happen. Read up on the electoral college. It is not perfect but noone has come up with a better idea.

And it has survived the test of time. Even with a controversial election like our last one we were able to pick our president without any major rifts in our country. Yes people were getting upset and although they may not agree they accepted the rule of law as written by the constitution. YOu should have seeen the messes we had before we had the electoral college.

N'Spite said: "I know I am right."

Well, N'Spite, I do envy you. It must be great to know that. I wish I knew what was right. I wish I could live with such a narrow mind. It would make life very easy for me. But I can't. I am proud to admit to being humbled by the events of the past 10 days, and I am not ashamed to admit to being confused, scared, angry.

But I think what scares me most is your assertion that I quoted in the first sentance of this post. It is people who 'knew they were right' who kamikazed those planes last week. It is people who 'know they are right' who preach bigotry and intolerance every day. I think everyone in this community has really tried to be understanding of your attitudes, but you are just beginning to annoy everybody now. Please stop it.

BTW, I heard somewhere that Iceland has the oldest democratic government in the world, but I don't know how old, does anyone else out there know???

Jude

BEcause we ceeded from Great Britain in 1776, that's why comrade... Welcome Newbie to H2G2 for the first time. I am Semithist 32.

that's true..Iceland has the oldest parliament.

Wasn't there some kind of parliament in ancient Greece in the fifth century before Christ? I can't recall how the system worked, but I do recall the word 'democracy' has its origin there.

This would be the Althing (Alþingi in Icelandic), which dates back to 930AD? Mind you, it didn't have legislative powers between 1262 and 1874...

Another interesting thing I heard this morning.

Even during the midst of America's great global war on terrorism, you can go into a bar in New York, Boston, Philly and be solicited for a donation to the Continuity IRA. Amazing. Now, seven years ago, that donation would have gone to the Provisional IRA, but since they've been on cease-fire, some 'Irish-Americans' have decided to support the group that are still attempting to kill and maim people on this side of the pond. Obviously unarmed struggle is not glamourous enough for them. How would they feel if I spent a few days in American bars in London trying to stump up cash for Osama bin Ladan?
It's never right to blame the victims of an assault for their misfortune. No one asks to be attacked – and saying 'they deserved it' can never be justified. If we do that, we're making the same fatal errors as the people who hi-jacked those planes: failing to differentiate between 'America' and 'Americans'.
America has so often been on the other side of terrorist attacks (either by supporting them or carrying them out) that it's only now the people of that country are beginning to realise the devastation that is caused. The big difference is that, now America has been so comprehendingly attacked, we're all supposed to join in the rightious crusade that Bush Jr has initiated.

Jude, everything I have posted was posted in a debate forum and format. If it annoys you that someone has opinnions different than you than maybe you do not neeed to be in a debate topic. If everyone else wants me to leave then I will gracefully exit without another word, I have spoken of many things and you decide to take that one sentence out of context that I had posted to another "annoying" and claim that is what I have been doing. YOu are annoying me.

I said that to goad another into a debate when all he wanted to do was call me stupid. Many of you epople out there have issues that I cannot comprehend, and the one that "annoys" me the most is your biassed haterd towards another people. I see alot of hypocracy and little of the "fairness" that you all preach.

What really ticks me off about American culture is the combination of arrogance with hypocrisy.

First of all there's the American national equation, America=World (why else were the twin towers called the World Trade Center and the national baseball championships are called the World Series).

So if America=World most Americans probably won't understand why an European like me finds it incredibly infuriating when they call their president (especially the current one) "the leader of the free world".

Even if America=World were true (in which case I'm buying a one way ticket to the moon), it sure as hell isn't a free world then, is it !

Arrogance doubles up with Hypocrisy (or is it ignorance?) in the All American tag team of Annoying Behaviour. Since most Americans believe their country to be so great, their way of living so superior, it is their job, as God's favourite nation, to be the shining example for the rest of the (non-free) world, right ?

Backed up by cultural and economical imperialism America tries to transform other peoples in to TV-addicted, hormone-hamburger munching, uptight, sexually frustrated, narrow minded, bible wielding idiots.*

Americans are always horribly shocked if people tell them to stuff their culture where the sun don't shine. They don't understand when others view their selfish ultra-consumerism as wrong. Basically, most Americans have neither understanding nor respect for a culture other than their own.**

So the question should be, Why don't people hate Americans ?








*Author's Note : I realize this is a very negative and one sided view on Americans on my part. If you, Americans, want to change this stereotype, you should really ban shows like Oprah and Jerry Springer, or at least stop exporting them.

** Off course all if the above is a vulgar generalisation. Naturally there have to be some intelligent, kind and caring people in America. I just wonder how they can stand to live there.

loonytunes

You appear to have a real bee in your bonnet about the US. No country is perfect including Australia/NZ (what about the conditions of your orginal inhabibitants?).

You keep refering to China as the beacon of light. Have you ever been to China? I think if you had you wouldn't be saying that. True it is booming but true it has a long ways to go both economically, politically and environmentally.

Treefrog

Everyone has their opinion. One can agree with it or not. I wonder have you ever been to the states or have your travels strictly confined to Europe?

I must admit it bugs me when I hear a European talking about how terrible the sins of the US are refering to the last 50 years when the somehow forget about the last 1000 years of European culture.

Treefrog, I think you're taking a few aspects of a rich culture of 280 million people, and using those to painting an inaccurate picture of the entire country. "the national baseball championships are called the World Series" Come on, the name came from a silly marketing ploy used around the turn of the century when various different competitions were vying for popularity. It has nothing to do with arrogance, only sports and advertising history. Would you call Europeans liars and hypocrites because the Champions League is not a real league and features some nonchampions? "the leader of the free world" That term is not used most of the time. Besides its origin is in Cold War roots, when the US president was the most visible figure representing the 'free world' against communism. It is jingoistic, but you have to understand why and how it came into use. "if America=World were ...it sure as hell isn't a free world" I refer you to http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F76594?thread=140656&skip=480 Although the situation in the US is far from perfect, residents of the US enjoy a vast amount more freedoms and rights than residents of most other countries. "America tries to transform other peoples in to TV-addicted, hormone-hamburger munching, uptight, sexually frustrated, narrow minded, bible wielding idiots." First off, you don't have to eat hamburgers, watch TV, etc... Second, have you tried watching TV from other countries? TV around the world is universally bad, with or without american influence. And you can get cheap generic ethnic food from almost any region that tastes awful. "Americans are always horribly shocked if people tell them to stuff their culture where the sun don't shine." Almost anyone from anywhere would be shocked and offended when someone says that about their own culture. "They don't understand when others view their selfish ultra-consumerism as wrong." Most of them understand, even when they don't agree.

I agree, European history is filled with thick black pages written in human blood, the conquest of America being one of them. It's true, if you would stack up the black pages of Europe and America side by side, then the European pile would be a lot bigger, but the European states have been at it a lot longer too.

History isn't really the issue here (although one can argue that all current events are a reslut of history, but I digress...), I think attitude is however.

I believe that Europe and America are drifting ever further apart in their view of the world. I feel that is a good thing because there was a time I feared that Europe would become an American lapdog in Foreign affairs (like the British).

I'm not saying I feel that the European view is always right but I just know that the American view is usually wrong.

Examples :

- The Kyoto agreement, probably one of the worst and most blatant xamples of Amercian arrogance. (America being responsible for over 50% of CO2 exhausts in the world)

- Trade Wars : Americans trying to force Europe to allow hormone treated beef is one of the examples I personally find most revolting. American gouvernemt has tried to force this issue by significantly raising important taxes on European products. This is again very hypocritical behaviour because the US is supposed to be the champion of free trade (read, only when it suits them). The reason Europe bans hormone treated beef is because they feel that (in this case at least) public health is more important than profit, a belief the American gouvernment obviously doesn't share.

Coming back to history, I guess that most European nations have "matured" beyond the point where they proclaim being the greatest nation in the world. (Since the previous century was rather messy I guess they didn't have much choice ). America obviously hasn't and I guess that if the US doesn't change it's attitude towards the rest of the world (like try to respect it a little bit), it won't be your last major terrorist attack.

And to answer your question, I have been outside of Europe but I haven't been to the US. My girlfriend and some other friends of mine have however. When they came back I always asked them to change my view of the US (I realize that my view must have flaws because I don't have first hand experience) by telling me about their trip. The problem is, however, that until now everyone of them has come back with his/her prejudice reinforced !!!!

So I'll probably go to the US one day but I doubt it will really change my attitude towards it.

I used to think like you - until I went to America.

Please don't confuse the idiocy and arrogance of the US government and the major American corporations with the feelings of the population as a whole. All of the Americans I have met have been generous, fine people. Of course, they are a little insular and find it difficult to take in facts about the outside world that don't agree with their pre-conceptions, but then so are, in my honest opinion, most of the people in the UK, Australia, Germany, etc. In fact, I would say the same goes for the inhabitants of any big country.

What makes the attack on the WTC so sickening is that 99% of the people killed and injured were just normal people doing their job. Please don't forget that.