A Conversation for Talking Point: 11 September, 2001
Why do some people hate Americans?
T´mershi Duween Posted Sep 19, 2001
Ok Gradient!
As for being ex-/Introvert, it seems to me, that at least SOME europeans were extrovert enough to go to "That New Land" over there and cultivate it
And I´m sure the American-Indians has quet a different perspective on that matter
Why do some people hate Americans?
N'Spite Posted Sep 19, 2001
First of all I would like to say to Loonytunes, your remark about Americans in anguish over the loss of their loved ones offends me greatly. the "wailing and hand-wringing" can be heard accross the world. And your trivialising is very insulting and only makes yourelf look foolish.
Secondly, as far as everyones hate, resentment, irritation, or just general dislike of Americans, well a few weeks ago I would have said that's your problem. And meant it. For you see America is a land seperated from the rest of the world by 2 very large oceans. For the most part we are not effected by international issues. The only ones that are are our representativs and government. We do not concern ourselves with things that do no effect us. Neither do you. To say you do is arrogant and self serving.
Yes we are concerned about the world issues. When we hear about or see images of peoples who are being suppresses, murdered, wronged, or just need help, our hearts go out to them. Mostly we know there is injustice in the world. And us being the regular citizens of a free, civilised, and powerful nation offer help when we can either with our wallets, military, or other support. We think every person on this earth should have the freedoms that we have. And with our insular upbringing to us that is the right way to think. We truley do care, and we truley do think that we are on the side of right. If our government wants to send troops to Bosnia or Serbia to stop mass slaughter of innocents we support it. We encourage it. If our government wants to sanction a dictatorial nation who breaks international laws, even though they try to defy us, we also are in agreement. If it says it needs to have intersts overseas to preserve stability in a region because of the economic security of our nation and the world we nod in agreement. This is our country. This is our home. It is in our hands wheather it prospers or fails, does wrong or right. I am so very proud of my country because of what it stands for and where it came from. I know that little sentence just makes some of your bllod boil, but tough. I think every citizen should be proud of their counttries. They should stand up for thier homeland, if they don't then they should make it to something they are proud of or find somewhere else to be.
Am I proud of the fact that we sat back and let the attrocities happen in Rwanda? Absolutely not. Am I proud of the fact that our sanctions kill children in other countries. Hell no. Am I proud that most of the world resents us for who we are or resents our leaders? nope. But our mistakes in no way even comes close to the good we do in the world. We hav'nt even come close to failure as a nation or world leader. We havn't failed as citizens either. And I will say you are wrong to anyone who wants to argue with me.
And lastly, the remark about the U.S. being children makes me laugh. It does not offend me that you would think of us as a new nation, that we are. What makes me laugh is how yu guys think you know better or would do better if you had the chance. That is what everyone thinks but in no way does that make you right. The U.S. governmanet is the OLDEST government in the world. You don't have to look it up, I already did. But dod it anyways if you don't know or believe me.
Another reason I am proud of my country is that we have set the standard for everyone else so far. As citizens and any historian will agree, Our forefathers has done something unprecedented. Thomas Jefferson and his collaberators wrote our constitution well over 200 years ago. Our government was set up for the people and by the people by "children", and you know what? they did a damn fine job. As a matter of fact you could say they did it right. They set it up kowing they where just humans, and they knew the world they lived in will not be the world their children would live in. They knew mistakes would be made, And they planned for them. We as a nation are probably the most humble of all nations even though to all obvios reasons we look like the most arrogant to the world. We right the things we realise is wrong. It may take us a while to get it through our heads, but again we are only human, and we know it. And yet our constitution has not wronged us or the world. It is the oldest unchanged constitution in the world. And that is so good because it is the backbone of our nation.
And another lastly, Poeple resent us because we are the self proclaimed policemen of the world. We are not. We do not want to send our children in to risk ther lives when others failed themselves. We do not want to spen trillions of our hard earned dollars to set policies for the world that we see fit. But we have to, because there is not else to do it and it has to be done.
We know we make bad police, because we are a proud nation. We are soveriegn also. We are policing the world with a military who has not sworn an oath to the world. They are they to serve our interests, just as every nations military is. We realised this when we helped create the UN. The UN has become a farce so it is up to us yet again. Some of you said that we are the reason the UN has failed. And you may have your reasons, and they may be valid. But we as a nation want to get out of it. But you know as well as we do that we have to stay in for it to work. that is the delimma. We pay almost 25% of the dues, we put in most of the logistical and miltary support, yet all it has become is a sounding board against teh U.S.
And so finally we come to the crux of the matter. You know as well as I that I connot say it is your problem anymore. For it seems that you who hate us has made it our problem once again. Americans are finally noticing everyone else, yet when we open our eyes to you we come into alot of resentment and bias. This will not deter us for what needs to be done. We also see the support that comes through that resentment. We are satisfied with that. We may not have expected the resentment or hate, but we did expect the support, For we see yu as equal to us. No matter what your media or biases tell you we are not a people who think we are better than anyone else. We think we do better in alot of things, wich we are backed up with alot of eveidence, but that is a problem we have. ANd maybe we can fix that too.
YOu see we don't have anyone to police us or help us when we fall or make a mistake. Yet we are expected , because of that, to be better than everyone else. To do more than everyone else. To be a better people and a better nation than everyone else. When basically we are the same as you. No nation has done better than we have and yes we could do better, I think we have done the best so far when you look at the world history. We stmble along the way, and our errors are multiplied because of who we are.
But you have to realize that to err is human, not American. In no way do I expect you to change how you feel towards us. You have your reasons and If I were you I would most likely feel the same way. But you cannot expect us to change the way we feel either. We love our country and are very proud of it. When you see is blanket ourselves in our flag, it is not because we are arrogant, we do so because we know who we are and where we came from. Not because of the mistakes we made. Wich I know is all that most of you can see.
I truely want a brotherhood with the rest of the worl. It hurts to see the hate, some of it vallid. But honestly I don't see an open community for us to join like it is now. We have to change then , you may say. I doubt that would ever happen. Even if we changed a few policies there will always be something for the world to resent us for. And until we are all truely equal it will always be that way. And that will never happen as long as we have soverign nations and different ideals.
Why do some people hate Americans?
T´mershi Duween Posted Sep 19, 2001
And by the way Gradient!
When was the last time u learned something really usefull from a teenager(I`m supposing ur not a teen )?
U can surely learn something fun and certainly something wild.That is all well enough.But something REALLY USEFUL?
I would have to say to that teenager "GROW UP AND GET A HAIRCUT AND A JOB!!!"
Why do some people hate Americans?
Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here Posted Sep 19, 2001
NSpite, I believe Canadians and Mexicans will be surprised to find they are separated from the United States by two oceans.
My so-called insensitive remarks referred to the perforamance of CNN etc this week, not last. On Tuesday (18th), CNN spent 12 hours talking about American stock exchanges. Perhaps they forgot they are broadcasting to the world.
On an historical basis, last weeks atrocity, while tragic, was minor compared to many natural disasters. The 'doomsday is nigh' frenzy the American media has whipped itself into is pathetic.
Many people would say the biggest disaster facing the world at the moment is finding out a way to convince 8% of the world's citizens (USA) spewing 18% of the world's pollution into the atmosphere.
Why do some people hate Americans?
Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here Posted Sep 19, 2001
Well at least that goes to show not only Americans have a problem with comprehension. My last par should read...
Many people would say the biggest disaster facing the world at the moment is finding out a way to convince 8% of the world's citizens (those living in the USA) to stop spewing 18% of the world's pollution into the atmosphere.
Why do some people hate Americans?
T´mershi Duween Posted Sep 19, 2001
Hmmm N´spite!
I can´t figure out if ur making fun here, if ur a terrorist extension in Cyberspace just trying to make Americans look REALLY stupid, or if ur for real!
If ur for real i think u just proved a lot of people´s points.
If ur making fun, well : BAD JOKE!!!
And if ur a Cyber-terrorist ur not very smart ´cause u`ve blown ur cover
And no I don´t wanna argue with u. Seems a waste of time considering the stand u´ve taken.
Why do some people hate Americans?
N'Spite Posted Sep 19, 2001
Loonytunes, I said Americans, I did not say United States. Your close minded to anything American. It is obvios. Your problem, not mine.
YOu cannot wrap your brain around the fact that this was NOT a natural disaster?Can you not tell what the difference is? Or maybe your biases will not let you because it happened to the evil Americans?
Please, you do not have a clue what we think about the polution here. So until you do don't patronize me.
And as far as CNN goes. Change the channel.
Why do some people hate Americans?
N'Spite Posted Sep 19, 2001
T'mershi.
If you didn't want to read it or can't understand it I would advise you to not comment about it. To just say it is stupid and you don't want to take the time to make YOUR point is insulting. I know I am right. I don't have to make excuses and try to degrade those that I dissagree with. hmm?
Why do some people hate Americans?
N'Spite Posted Sep 19, 2001
ANd on your previous post, Talking about acting like a kid.
Your reply reminds me of a child who was told something he didn't like and the only thing he could say was "your stupid!" LOL vivid picture eh.
Why do some people hate Americans?
T´mershi Duween Posted Sep 19, 2001
I just don´t see the point discussing w/ an american who think he´s 100% right and everybody else is wrong.
Probably something in my upbringing
Why do some people hate Americans?
Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here Posted Sep 19, 2001
N'Spite my mistake, though I guess the Russians will be surprised about the ocean thing and the West Indies and...
To help you become a bright world citizen - not just a member of a declining village in North America (China is booming) - may I suggest you turn off your computer and head for a decent library. Get out Noreena Hertz' new book The Silent Takeover: Global Capitalism and the Death Of Democracy.
Dr Hertz, PhD, is an Associate Director of the Centre for International Business and Management at the Judge Institute, University of Cambridge.
Why do some people hate Americans?
N'Spite Posted Sep 19, 2001
Loonytuns. I asked you not to patronize me. My wife, Who is a thai national and muslim got her masters in International business. I am sure I can learn more from her than you thank you.
These are my opinnions, ANd I try to make informed ones lest I look stupid. I wrote a friggin essay and all you can concern yourself with is how we are on the other side of the world than most of you are.
My opinions and not yours. YOu can argue with me on my opinions but you cannot tell me I am wrong by naming countries. Debate me if you will but please stop patronizing me. And you call Americans arrogant?
Why do some people hate Americans?
Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here Posted Sep 20, 2001
"New research shows that a worrying 38 percent of New Zealanders have no idea about anything, say health authorities."
While the above may be a correct assessment of modern-day Kiwis, if there is one thing we do know something about, it's oceans.
We also tend to not take ourselves too seriously
Why do some people hate Americans?
Go-Go Girl Posted Sep 20, 2001
N'Spite..CONGRATULATIONS. Fine speech you gave there! The fact is America is the best, finest country in the world, and the problems it encounters stem purely from JEALOUSLY.
I live in Britain, was mostly educated here, but am half Dutch and Mexican. |Also lived in the States, as a child and later adult. I long to be able to live in the States again...I long for that Green Card..it is indeed the land of opportunity and beauuty where nothing is impossible.
Lest you wonder where I am coming from, I live in London, have a very higly active social Life (and I mean SOCIAL..think gossip columns etc)and have networked to the 100dreth degree.Everyone I know loves the US, it hs been an Ally, and a n example of what freedom can really achieve. Yes tehre have been mistakes along the way, but show me a nation that hasn't amde them, and I will show you Nirvana.
Looneytunes..I am shocked at you. You are coherent and intelligent. I DO hope you really can laugh at yourself.
Have you ever travelled outside New Zealand? You are sounding very parochial.
Why do some people hate Americans?
the autist formerly known as flinch Posted Sep 20, 2001
I think i agree N'Spite
"Freedom is merely privilege extended,
until enjoyed by one and all"
Why do some people hate Americans?
Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here Posted Sep 20, 2001
GGG, yes I have travelled extensively. I also know a little about the scourge of terrorism.
I was at the Munich Olympic Games in 1972 when the Black September group massacred the Israeli athletes. A couple of years later I was working at a bar in London's Victoria Station when the IRA exploded a bomb outside the door.
During my travels I met quite a few US citizens who would have loved to pack up and move permanently to Australia/New Zealand. These people tended to be unhappy with the course modern-day America is set on. Many were sick of the ignorant jingoism displayed by some of their fellow Americans. All would have preferred to live in, and raise their children in countries that provided affordable education and health care for all their citizens.
Key: Complain about this post
Why do some people hate Americans?
- 61: T´mershi Duween (Sep 19, 2001)
- 62: N'Spite (Sep 19, 2001)
- 63: T´mershi Duween (Sep 19, 2001)
- 64: Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here (Sep 19, 2001)
- 65: Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here (Sep 19, 2001)
- 66: T´mershi Duween (Sep 19, 2001)
- 67: N'Spite (Sep 19, 2001)
- 68: N'Spite (Sep 19, 2001)
- 69: T´mershi Duween (Sep 19, 2001)
- 70: N'Spite (Sep 19, 2001)
- 71: T´mershi Duween (Sep 19, 2001)
- 72: Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here (Sep 19, 2001)
- 73: N'Spite (Sep 19, 2001)
- 74: N'Spite (Sep 19, 2001)
- 75: Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here (Sep 20, 2001)
- 76: Go-Go Girl (Sep 20, 2001)
- 77: Go-Go Girl (Sep 20, 2001)
- 78: the autist formerly known as flinch (Sep 20, 2001)
- 79: the autist formerly known as flinch (Sep 20, 2001)
- 80: Lonnytunes - Winter Is Here (Sep 20, 2001)
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