h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

As a non-American (met you on the other thread), I have to agree with you - people don't hate Americans, who are people like the rest of us -people get upset, angry and even, yes,hating, about things Americans do as Government or Corporates.

Honey³
I'm writing this partly because you asked, and partly because it worries me that so many of these posts equate American with White. America is a very big place with a lot of different kinds of people. It is true that racism is one of our big problems, but we are working on it. I grew up in Maryland, just north of Virginia, and now live in the mid-west. Over the years I've also spent time in New England and Florida. I have noticed that, unfortunately, the plight of non-whites is (still)worse in some places than in others. The south in general, of which Virginia is a part, seems to be one of those places. It is hard to reverse the kind of race-based abuse that went on in the 19th century and into the 20th century, but we are making progress. Although there are individuals and even organizations who are openly racist, most americans really want racism to end. We now have laws to provide equal rights for housing and education. Our cities go to great lengths to make sure that the education is not "seperate but equal", but rather that whites and non-whites go to the same schools.

Discrimination in hiring on the basis of race, gender, creed & age is illegal in the US. It still happens, but if one gets caught doing it, he is prosecuted. Also, no one can be kept from voting in our elections because of race. Things are not perfect, but it is improving.

The insurance/medical care issue is very controversial here, but it is not just non-whites who are affected. Unfortunately, our government cannot bring itself to completely take over the health care system, and IMHO until they do a lot of people of all races will fall between the cracks. This is a political/economic issue rather than one of race.

I wish you had gotten a better impression when you visited our country. We're really not a bad lot.

j still ing.

Many people privately think that their own country is great. Strangly, only citizens from the United States of America feel the need to proclaim this publicly.

speaking as an american...
we have a bad problem with thinking, we tend to speak before our brain engages fully and before we know it something slips out that causes us to start choking on our feet (yes feet, both normally end up there before it is over with )
we also tend to be a bit too proud for our own good. a great many of us (i am not one of them) have never set foot off of our own soil so we don't have a clue as to how life is anywhere but here. we tend to get our ideas of what everyone else is by what we see on the tv and in the movies which tends to make reality a bit fuzzy.
really though, we aren't that bad (i don't think so anyway) we have our faults (ok, a bunch of them ) but we are learning...remember that when it comes to age we are still babies learning how to walk. our country is quite new compared to most so we haven't learned quite as much as others.
hopefully though, with time, we will do as most children do and learn from our mistakes allowing us to grow up to be honorable adults with much wisdom to share (or keep to ourselves depending on if it is asked for from us or not)
Monsy (please don't hit me for rambling on)

Because they´re there???

Just was watching Sports Center, realized that, once again, no one can sing the national anthem worth anything. This will be a problem with this new patriotism: large masses of people singing badly off-key.

you mean we used to sing on key??
Monsy

No, but I forsee it becoming even worse. I have some very amusing stories about people trying to sing the national anthem.

oh, trust me, if they are anything like mine we could be here for hours LOL!!
i think the first thing that needs to happen is everyone needs to take a class in learning the real words to the national anthem and then they need to also, in the same class, learn the exact words to the pledge, you would be amazed at some of the versions that i've heard LOL!
Monsy

I must say this is one of the more reasonable discussions i have seen of recent time. I would agree that in the main we are talking about institutions here (govt etc) however the ability of so many Americans to drape themselves in the flag and tell everyone how good they are is not always appreciated.

There are so many answers to this question and if there is one positive that can possibly come out of this whole tragedy it would be that the US government will ask itself this very same question and possibly review their foreign policy / diplomatic directions.

If you set yourself up as the global policeman you have to be even handed to all parties involved. Clearly this is not the case at the moment.

In Dutch we have an expression which one can translate as 'high trees catch a lot of wind'. I guess it is not very hard to understand what it means... If a country places itself constantly on the top of the ladder, than they can expect to get a lot of responsibility and the troubles that come with this responsibility...

IDIC, it is not entirely correct that I have such a bad impression of your country. I've seldom seen as much beautiful nature sites on a couple of days time... When I drove towards Washington DC from Alexandria, it's like you're driving through a forest, although you're just in between two parts of essentially one city! In Europe, this nearly does not exist any longer, there are so many people on such small areas (like for instance in Belgium). Also, the people were very friendly in Virginia, in shops, on the road, in restaurants and so on, but when I talked to some young people about where I came from, they all thought of Belgium as some kind of third world country, an old and dirty and miserable little piece of ground. Which it isn't... As I said before: what disturbs me most about the people I've met from America is the way they treat foreigners : with a slight form of disdain and a bit of pity, and it's irritating since I have my pride too, you know...

Anyway, maybe I just met the wrong people...

Earthman, I don't entirely agree on this statement about jealousy (people hating America because they want someone to blame for not being rich and succesful). Over here there are also quite some people who don't like America (not americans, America), but it can't have anything to do with that, since the living standard is higher over here (Belgium is on the fifth place of the world ranking for living standard, after Norway, Canada, Sweden and Australia, if I remember correctly). What their reasons are, I don't know! I always judge things from my own experiences, not by some kind of 'public opinion'...

before i say my opinion, just a few things for what FCL-BW wrote:
I don't know about Malaysia, because I've never been there.But I do have a lot of turkish friends and I can assure you that Turkey is nowhere near prosperity or democracy.Being actually governed by the army (with the help of NATO and the USofA-but that is to follow) for the past 80 years, this country openly opresses its own citizens.
It is keeping political prisoners (some thousands) and for those who don't know in the past year 35 have died on hungerstrike(a desperate attempt to stop their transfer into white-cells prisons) and another 18 murdered in last years army attack in the prisons to stop the strike.85% of the turkish people live below the level of poverty.In the past 40 years the country is always in the list of the UN commitee for abusing human rights (torturing of prisoners-raping etc.)

Returning to the main issue, think of that:The USA has been helping the turkish military regime from 1945 onwards. The USA has never condemned the dictatorships of 1962 or 1980 (ehm.. actually it helped the army to overturn the elected government and hang PM Mederes).It provides Turkey with guns and in return uses the turkish bases to bomb Iraq and now.. Afghanistan.
It's difficult to ask the turkish people (and especially the ones that do not benefit from the usa intervention) not to "hate" the americans.
Some of you stated that there is a difference between the government and the people.Obviously this is true.But who votes for this government? Who accepts this bipolar election system? What did the americans do to prevent their gov. to raid the world in the name of justice and become the worlds' policeman? Who is responsible for a president that has the world record as the governor with the most executions of prisoners?
Definitely not all americans are like that.But you can't explain that to people that owe a lot of their pain (Chile,Bolivia,Japan, Palestine, Libya,Lebanon,Greece,Cuba,Vietnam,Yugoslavia, Cambodia,Nicaragua,Haiti,Somalia and numerous other that I forget) to the intervention of US politics in their countries.
What I mean is that the americans themselves have to do something to stop their arrogant leaders..and to do that they need to look deep in themselves and their own mentality.

Otherwise we will continue facing these absurd scenes of people dancing in the streets of arab nations, cheering for the loss of human lifes.And to tell the truth, not only in arab nations.I come from Greece.. a country where I still have seen nobody (except for the politicians on screen) condemn holeheartedly this attack. People in the street say that this death-toll was unnecessary and cruel. But everybody adds: They asked for it...

I will finish my unpleasant contribution with a sad truth. A friend of mine aged 49 was just 19 when she got raped by miltary policemen in jail back in 1970.Her mistake was that she handed out leaflets against the greek dictatorship, a regime openly enforced by the USA(something that even the CIA has accepted). She did not seem that offended by what happened last tuesday, I'd say rather happy...
Can I blame her? It's sad reaching the point where logic is lost.. and our planet has lost every logic.
I hope a spaceship will pick up my signals before earth becomes a distant nuclear memory....

Winston Churchill said: America always does the right thing. She just exhaust every other option first.

What's really shocking (apart from the murder of so many civilians) is the opportunistic response from so many. Arial Sharon has used the attack as cover for making illegal incursions into Palastinian territory, Bush's administration are pushing for great military spending (which benefits his arms-dealing mates and backers), the British government are pushing for ID cards (as if they can't be faked), the Iranians have u-turned completely to support the US (could be something to do with a Taleban plan to set up a major oil pipeline, taking some of their business), the Taleban are going to make their long-desired incursion into Pakistan, the former Soviet republics bordering Afganistan are pushing for more aid from the US in return for 'base space' – which will please the Russians no end – and on and on and on and on.
And let's not even start of global finance!

Oh, and The Daily Telegraph (in England) wants to ban encryption on emails and the bombing of foreign ISPs which could facilitate terrorist communications...

The internal politics of the USA are strange and unedifying.

I don't understand why various groups are disadvantaged either; I loved the example you used - but you should understand that this sort of thing is rife all over the world. The USA does not (sadly) have the monopoly on discrimination.
Please note, though, that white middle class males are in fact the true minority.
If you were to visit London, I could show you things no more than a mile away from Buckingham Palace that would make you question which city you were in. I could do the same in my own home town. It's all relative to the standard of living that you're used to.

Belgium is one of the world's more sorted nations (I have a great deal of respect for Europe generally)but it's a far cry from the mammoth population and therefore equally mammoth problems that the US has. But are these problems reason to hate them?

Nope.
And it's rather unfair to suggest that because a nation is good at self-promotion it shouldn't be surprised to be the victim of the odd attack. This is rather like saying any woman wearing provocative clothing shouldn't be surprised if she gets raped. Nobody deserves that, and no nation (no matter who they are) deserves to be the victim of the kind of terrorist act that was perpetrated last week.

The thread has gotten quite away from the original question...

Anyway there was something two posts above that caught my attention.
The opportunistic approach every nation is taking to resolve their secret problems in the midsts of the World Trade Center's smoke and shock has been pointed out above...

Remember 1914? This could have been anticipated. All nation's interests and negotiations have reached a stale-mate. Military, diplomatic, commercial. The blockade of the North Atlantic in 1914 was choking Germany. The commercial embargoes and no-no's of today seem to be having the same effect on Iraq and partly Afghanistan. This all leads to a brittleness and stiffness that ultimatively leads to turbulent times.

Well I'll stop here. I've gone through this thinking for too many times now... To finalize: Let us stop thinking aboput the next immediate steps and start to think of what can happen in 5 years if we take certain steps now. (Sometimes I feel like moving to Brazil is not the worst choice)

War is inevitable.

HELL

I think that many of the people are correct. The US should totally disengage from the world political scene and revert back to the isolationist policies pre 1938.

Here's a statistic I read today.
The population of Iraq has been reduced by 5 percent due to military strikes and sanctions. Take that figure and apply it to the US population = 14 million people. That's a lot for the Iraqi people to be angry at. Is it any wonder that so many young men are willing to act as suicide bombers.
Of course you could say that Saddam Hussein is responsible for those deaths, his population languishes in poverty while he (and his family) live it up. But, not for the first time, ordinary people are being punished for the actions of their unelected masters. Which is what will happen in Afganistan if the US takes the inevitable short term view and decides to bomb some sand.

Another thought. Nearly every empire (from Alexander the Great onwards) has tried to conquor Afganistan. No one has succeeded.

I haven't read all of the statements in this conversation list, but I myself agree with the whole thing of not being too impressed with the American government, but not having anything against actual citizens. I think most people don't like to be bullied, and overall (if we're really honest with ourselves) we're probably a little envious of the power that American politics has over the world. But putting that aside, I am in school fulltime, and I have many fellow students of ALL backgrounds, especially from the middle east. So one day I made a remark about how bad I felt for the people in New York.... WELL........ did I ever open the flood gates for alot of angry people!! I didn't mean too! But it happened. I have been hearing alot of talk about politics over there that involve the American government, but the one thing I notice the most, is that they make no distinction between citizen and government the way I do and others do. To them it's all the same. ( I myself am being general to make a point)

Andy, that last point, is so right I had hesitated to say it. Didnt want to be called names! And another thing, only the Taliban have managed to control 95% of that territory in recent times. So much for statistics.

Back to the thread, why really do "people" "hate" America? First is we have assumed that it is hated though we may actually be talkingabout a dislike more than hate. An irritation perhaps? But for those who suffer DIRECTLY from the USA's misadventures around the world, maybe hate is not such a big thing.
I remeber the bombs in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam. I was in Nairobi then and shortly after the bombs went off, Marines sarrounded the bombed Embassy. Am a doctor and we were workin our butts (sorry!) out that day. The Marines refused to let us use the Embasy compound (what was left of it) to try and reach some trapped Kenyans in the rubble. Reason, not given. Later their press attache tried to explain it by saying people may have stolen computers which had valuable information! You know I dont hate America, but that day I came close very close. The crisis was averted when we asked them (too calmly) to shoot us if they felt like! If (for example) someone died due to this refusal, and if this someone was special to u would you hate America?

Well, I dont hate America, but I dont think the childless in Iraq, the ophans of Palestine dont. When an individual "perceives" America as the problem, and if the result of the perceived American intervention is a lot death and suffering, you can generate one very hateful human being. Sometimes I think that, just to numb that hate, its chanelled as a religious effort.