A Conversation for Talking Point: 11 September, 2001
Being Human
John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" Started conversation Sep 13, 2001
It's hard to know how to begin to digest all that has happened this week, the tragic events that have led to so many deaths. I've been reading some of the comments posted by our fellow Researchers. Most express shock and revulsion, as one might expect; but there are those who have chosen to say things like 'it served them right' and 'they had it coming', terrible sentiments that can only have come of not having seen enough of life to know better. Whatever one's political or religious views, however one feels about the lifestyle choices of financiers and stock traders, one should be sensitive to the fact that what has transpired is a monumental human tragedy. Comparisons to other events, like the oppression and death in the occupied territories, the tyranny and destruction in Tibet, or the slaughter of innocents in the Balkans, may or may not be valid. But they entirely fail to come to terms with the true face of human suffering and loss. Those who died or were maimed, those who lost loved ones share the same pain as those who suffer anywhere, because they are human beings. The fragility of human life is the basis of all that we have in common, the foundation upon which our hopes and dreams arise. As terrible as the events of 11 September are, the real tragedy would be to lose sight of that, and reduce those who have suffered to mere symbols.
Being Human
John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" Posted Sep 13, 2001
Thanks. It saddens me that, when we have a chance to help, so often we choose not to. In the grand scheme of things perhaps what we do here is of little significance. But it is not entirely insignificant either. Each of us has the opportunity to be constructive, to add something to the forward progress of human life by raising the ethical standard. A part of that is choosing to set aside the satisfaction of being 'right' for the sake of those who are in need of condolence, of placing kindness and compassion ahead of dogma and politics. There may be an awful lot wrong with American foreign policy and, indeed, with the way that western civilization has trampled on the aspirations of most of the rest of the world. But choosing to ignore the basic human tragedy of what has taken place in New York this week in order to attack American culture is wrong. We have been given a chance to reach across cultural, religious, and ethnic divides; and it's a shame that more of us haven't noticed. I'm not saying that what is being argued is wrong, simply that it is wrong to argue. We should consider seriously how good it feels to make other people feel bad, and ask ourselves if we are not part of the problem.
JTG
Being Human
purplejenny Posted Sep 13, 2001
This is a terribly difficult situation, an appalling human catastrophe, a political event of stunning significance, a 'media event' and I cannot think of any other occasion where such worldwide debate has occurred.
Tempers are high, when what we need most is calm consideration.
For myself, I am trying to be *more* careful than usual with my words, less quick to make up my mind, and far too stunned to be opinionated - still less thirsty for vengence.
The only certainty to me is that we are all human beings trying to share a rather small planet. I hope we succeed and through improved communications can resolve problems, not escalate them.
love
purplejenny
Being Human
a girl called Ben Posted Sep 13, 2001
All that most of us can do is - as purplejenny has said - take a little more time - take a little more care - and do what we can to promote peace and understanding.
As the Buddhists say - start where you are.
I am immensely comforted - and saddened - by what I have been reading on the site today.
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a human called Ben
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A631261
Being Human
spimcoot Posted Sep 13, 2001
Personally I've been quite heartened by the World's reaction, especially by the fact that the World actually does seem to be reacting as one big family. Like any family it has its problems but let's hope it heeds a rather fine Billy Bragg lyric: 'in the end compassion has to be the greatest family value'.
There are sensible level headed people saying sensible level headed things, and even Bush showed an edge of humanity today. There's hope, I think, that better things might follow where initially I feared the worst.
Being Human
Earthman Posted Sep 13, 2001
Given the number of countries who lost citizens in this attack, it astounds me that the terrorists thought they wouldn't get the entire world hunting them down.
Being Human
halfpint Posted Sep 13, 2001
I was thinking that exact same thing, but these people obviously weren't thinking staright. Or maybe that's what is wanted
Being Human
John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" Posted Sep 13, 2001
The point I was hoping to make when I began this thread is that I believe it is less positive at this time, in this venue, to be discussing blame and retribution than it would be to think in terms of how to contribute something towards helping those who have suffered this calamity. In a general sense, perhaps it is less constructive to think in terms of who and what than why and how. That is to say, we may know who has hurt us, but we should ask ourselves why, and, looking beyond the short-term solution (or sense of immediate gratification), how we can work to resolve our differences. This means looking beyond slogans and symbols towards a future in which people can co-exist in peace. Asking 'why can't we all just get along' isn't silly and one shouldn't be ridiculed for asking it, because therein lies the answer to our current dilema. For the present, however, we should ask ourselves how what we write affects those who read it, and concentrate on helping those among us who may benefit from a little support.
Being Human
IDIC Posted Sep 14, 2001
Whoever did this thing on Tuesday may have meant to attack American culture or American politics or American foreign policy, but they missed and hit a whole lot of human beings. Whenever anyone tries to "get" such a thing as a culture or policy, they always miss because there are always people in the way.
As for Americans getting "what's coming to them", every human has things in his or her life that might make one worthy of punishment, but no one deserves to be blown to bits or to be used as a missle to blow others to bits. Doing these things to humans will not bring American culture or policy into line with the desires and beliefs of the perpetrators.
There is no way that we are going to get all humans to believe the same way or act the same way as any one group. We are all too different from each other. But I agree with John the gardener: It is *not* silly to try to find ways for all of us to get along, to be "nice" to each other.(or at least to avoid blowing each other up.) There must be a way!
My heart is broken over what has happened and my prayers are for all the people in New York, Pensylvania and especially Washington, where I grew up. I wish I could be there to help.
jenny
Being Human
compo Posted Sep 14, 2001
My heart goes out to all those people,no matter what nationality they are,who lost friends and family members in Washington and New York last Tuesday.Whilst I know that the people behind what happened need to be bought to justice,I only hope that there won't be a knee-jerk reaction to these terrible events where even more innocent lives may be lost.
Being Human
John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" Posted Sep 14, 2001
It seems to me that the way we interact in venues such as this is another aspect of human relations, no more and no less than high diplomacy, terrorism, and warfare. There is much that is hateful in the cyber-world, but also a great deal of good has come of the opportunity to freely exchange ideas with those we would otherwise only know as the two dimensional caricatures depicted in the media.
What's important for *us* is to do what we can to preserve the sense of commonality and shared values with the people we are tempted to call enemies. And the first and most obvious way of doing that is to turn up the empathy values of our monitors when we interact with other Researchers. Instead of pontificating about American foreign policy, when you have the chance to relate to an American Researcher, find out what it feels like to *be* an American at this time. Similarly, take the opportunity to learn from our friends living in the Middle East. No matter who we are, we may encounter differences which cannot be reconciled; but, in the final analysis, we are all human beings, whose basic needs and desires are the same.
International politics and the choices of nations is reflected in what ordinary people, like ourselves, say. But what we say also contributes to the shape that international relations take. We are tiny specks in the big picture, to be sure. But, tiny as we are, we are the parts which make up the whole.
It is vitally important that we are willing to embrace difference and look for constructive solutions to the world's problems. We should ask ourselves why we choose to talk about war and grand strategy (like a game) when we have the opportunity to relate to each other as human beings. We have to identify that our own short-comings are a significant part of the global problem.
The first step towards a better future is wanting one, and nothing is to be gained by pessimism. Both are self-fulfilling prophecies.
JTG
Being Human
Insert Creative Name Here-(Formerly Researcher 184894) Posted Sep 14, 2001
Through the sorrow, anger and confusion since September 11 I would like to say thank you for your sensible and comforting words, JTG. Seeing the carnage and devastation in New York was horrible enough. Things really hit home when the terror spread to Washington, D.C., the city upon which my husband and I have been building our hopes and dreams for the future. Though we were lucky enough to not be personally affected by this, we mourn for every single victim, their families and friends. I would like to extend heartfelt thanks for all the expressions of sympathy and condolence from the U.K and around the world.
To anyone reading:
As an American, I fully understand the feelings of rage and desire for revenge. However, we need to take a lesson from the terrorists themselves: We cannot let hatred take over and destroy our lives. This was hatred that drove them to minutely plan out the destruction of their own lives for months or maybe even years. Please remember, hatred destroys the hater as well as the hated.
I hope and pray (big feat for an agnostic) that President Bush and international leaders can find a way to punish these criminals without the further loss of innocent lives.
Being Human
taliesin Posted Sep 15, 2001
This thread is like a fresh drink of cool water to my soul.
Thank you
'Peace will enter, when hate is gone'
goes the old Blues lyric, and it is surely true, although at times it seems difficult to let hatred go.
Peace
Being Human
krysostorus Posted Sep 15, 2001
yes. it is comforting to know that among all the war insanity there are people who think differently. thank you.
Being Human
John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" Posted Sep 15, 2001
There are lots of people about who are still capable of putting aside their personal likes and dislikes, their pride and their prejudices, in order to see the world through someone else's eyes. And, in this time of destruction and despair, this is something to take courage in, to celebrate. Even the television news coverage has shown us the depth of compassion that people of all kinds are capable of. The pain of those poor souls, standing in line with photographs of their loved ones, is enough to break your heart. But those people also show us the strength that human beings are capable of in the face of adversity. Theirs is the true courage, more than the grim-faced politicians and the hawkish proponents of revenge. They have looked disaster squarely in the face and allowed their compassion and love to flourish. They are facing this disaster on human terms, and have no need of symbols or slogans. The challenge for the rest us is to face their pain and courage without turning it into a symbol of something else, without taking the cowards way out. The fight against terrorism is important. But the first battle in that war is with ourselves.
JTG
Being Human
IDIC Posted Sep 15, 2001
". . . the first battle in that war is with ourselves."
Amen to that! And may we all win the battle.
Being Human
purplejenny Posted Sep 18, 2001
this may interest you, fellow humans...
Its the beginnings of a peace group on h2g2. http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A633331
Comments and suggestions wanted.
Peace
pj
Key: Complain about this post
Being Human
- 1: John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" (Sep 13, 2001)
- 2: Fitzpops (Sep 13, 2001)
- 3: John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" (Sep 13, 2001)
- 4: purplejenny (Sep 13, 2001)
- 5: John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" (Sep 13, 2001)
- 6: a girl called Ben (Sep 13, 2001)
- 7: spimcoot (Sep 13, 2001)
- 8: Earthman (Sep 13, 2001)
- 9: halfpint (Sep 13, 2001)
- 10: John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" (Sep 13, 2001)
- 11: IDIC (Sep 14, 2001)
- 12: compo (Sep 14, 2001)
- 13: John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" (Sep 14, 2001)
- 14: Insert Creative Name Here-(Formerly Researcher 184894) (Sep 14, 2001)
- 15: taliesin (Sep 15, 2001)
- 16: krysostorus (Sep 15, 2001)
- 17: John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!" (Sep 15, 2001)
- 18: IDIC (Sep 15, 2001)
- 19: Shea the Sarcastic (Sep 16, 2001)
- 20: purplejenny (Sep 18, 2001)
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