h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

It's all anyone can talk about. It's all there is.

In a bar, in the afternoon.
"Those planes hitting the tower - have you dreamt about it?"
"No. Actually, last night I dreamt of a naked woman on a swing."
"What?"
"She was on a swing. Swinging."
"The world is going to hell in a hat, and that's what you dreamt about?"
"Yes. You just reminded me."
"You're a disgrace."
"Another drink?"
"Sure," I said.

Much better!

NM

Loony, you've been watching Behind the Green Door again, haven't you?

Somebody mentioned earlier lobbing bombs at the U.S. because there's people here that support the IRA. Heck. If I knew where they are, I'd send you the whole lot. You can strap them to the tank cannons and play target practice. Can't stand the f**ckers. 'Scuse me. What makes this situation a little different is that the U.S. government does not protect or endorse the activities of the IRA or its supporters.

So what do things look like from your end? The government is making no bones about this being a difficult and painful process. It's going to be a dirty job, not a clean-cut operation as the Gulf War was. War these days resembles surgery, and that's what they'd like to have us think, but it's meatball surgery.

I'm personally in approval of the food and medicine drops over Afghanistan. It's the only way to keep the Afghan people from starving. I think we need to be sending a stronger message - telling somebody you're their friend doesn't work like it does in the movies. The French government is calling it propaganda - yes, well, we need some. Even those Afghans who hate the government certainly aren't going to embrace the U.S. as their saviors.

I don't have any beads, but I might have a water pipe around here somewhere, and a poncho (a real poncho, not a Sears poncho).

Lentilla, Behind the Green Door hasn't reached Godzone (NZ) yet. Is it a Pom or a Yank show?

Loony

Lentilla is revealing quite a bit in her previous statement. The "behind the green door" is a famous x rated movie with it's centerpiece being a swing!! Only one who has watched it would know.

> "What makes this situation a little different is that the U.S. government does not protect or endorse the activities of the IRA or its supporters."

But it does, I'm told, allow them to operate unhindered. Which is essentially what the Taliban have been found guilty of (without trial, of course). The USA does so under claims of 'protecting free speech', while the Taliban does so under claims of 'badge of honour', and I bet both excuses are pretty meaningless to those who've died as a result...

So Lentilla and Listener watch X-rated shows. Mmmmmmm, revealing.

As for 669 up there, s/he seems to support rvenge. In that case there is really nothing wrong with Sept 11 if its looked at as revenge.

But I would agree at all. Whe you pay back, you dont pay back in kind otherwise there is no difference between the two parties. And right now, I see none! There should be justice in the way you deal with criminals and personally I like the one where you avoid hurting the innocent. But if you claim that even "they" killed some innocent ones, then you become like "they".

This "war" is going to bring down lots of people. I fear that quite a few are going to be in the USA. But if we addressed the root cause, now thats a thought.

Another thing is that as civillians go on dying in Afghanistan, more of the "free world" will pull out and only "hecklers" like Blair will remain screaming louder than Bush. By the way why does he do that?

That would be I WOULD NOT AGREE AT ALL (para 2)

>>> Benefit of the doubt: "That would be paragraph 3, above!" (Posting 687)<<<

>>> Why does Blair do that? Several answers. Lacking the time to go into details, and the inclination to come off my fence, may I provide the cynical view of "Someone likes to hold Mummy's hand"?

x x Fenny (looking for humour in the hunt for Zero Intolerance)

I think Linda (that's Blair) is trying to pump himself up a bit after the whole foot-and-mouth thing, not forgetting the deteriorating hospitals, teacher shortages, the breakdown of the GFA, the fuel protests, the tube strikes, the race riots, the railways, Prescott, then there's the dome, the asylum seekers, Mandelson, PPP, well, everything basically...

If ever Labour needed an opportunity to suck some popularity out of the Special Relationship, now would be the time for it. Has anyone noticed he's Sounding! Very Much! Like! Winston! These days?

Tony Blair is indeed getting all presidential on us. Nice to see that Parliament convened to agree with absolutley everything he said.

Its interesting to see that Claire Short (the International Development secretary) who has been the least 'hawkish' figure in govt is included in the War Cabinet...

And its appaling that the press advisor to Steve Byers (Head of the Department of Trade and Industry) sent out an email BEFORE TOWER 2 FELL advising her collegues that now was a good time to 'bury' the news of unpopular announcements My hatred of big business/government press officers I now feel is justified.

...grr. Again. That makes me extremely angry. She ought to be sacked, immediatley.

I think that Blairs motives are complex and include a genuine desire to do good. His conference speech last week made that pretty clear. But of course there are ideals as outlined in party speeches and addresses to the nation and there is 'real politick' and 'reality on the ground.' Off the top of my head, war is going to be good news for the undertakers, the Arms Trade, and there planners of that oil pipeline through the region.

Also 'WAR' serves as a handy catch-all explaination for cutting social spending, curbing civil liberties, incresing internal surveilence and covert action, giving more money to defence development etc etc etc. Anyone remember MiniPax from 1984?

Oh god, I've come over all Marvin now. I think I'll have to go and have lie down somewhere.

Re 1984 - you almost got me there! I was racking my brains to remember news items about MiniPax from when I was 11, when I suddenly realised there was a book of the same name!

Of course, I haven't read 1984 since 1984 - but at least I didn't have to run a Search on the subject!

x x Fenny (finding wry amusement in a search for Zero Intolerance)

"This "war" is going to bring down lots of people. I fear that quite a few are going to be in the USA. But if we addressed the root cause, now thats a thought"

I think since the first time since WWII the US mood is to go in and root them out and get rid of them. The reasons are very clear unlike, Korea, Vietnam and other small wars, the American public understands what it is about. Someone has said and done it that they want to kill us and our children specifically becasue we are Americans. No diplomacy, no middle ground for them, our death is their goal( No one is fooled by the current stated list, if it wasn't that it would be something else, it is a black hole). We have already prepared for military and more civilian deaths. They have already said they want to kill us anyway. What has one got to lose.

The causes that bin laden has already stated is going back 80 -100 years to the end of the breakup of the Ottoman empire by France and GB. Many of the issues the US was involved with many we weren't. It is a grudge against the Western powers and the current Middle Eastern powers ( this same group has been killing middle eastern leaders for a long time but he west never really noticed, remember Sadat)

I agree that the root cause has to be found and fixed but as a old saying goes it is "kinda like fixing the barn door after the cows are already out". In this case we have to find the terrorist becasue they are already stated what they are going to do. We can then fix the barn door (forgive me for mixing metaphors) so the inequalities that caused it are addressed.

At the risk of being flamed......('course, I'm use to it!)

I have watched Mr. bin Ladens' comments via the "idiot box". I've also seen his proteges' comments.

In spite of what they think.....we , in the US, are not in fear...we are in anger.

Thats' not a pretty picture.

The people of this nation are determined. This WILL end. Our government has our approval to do whatever is necessary to "make it so".

All help is MORE than appreciated.

In the meantime, if a Muslum needs assistance in my presence...they have it. I just hope the rest of my fellow US citizens feel the same.

NM

RE: 687

"As for 669 up there, s/he seems to support rvenge. In that case there is really nothing wrong with Sept 11 if its looked at as revenge." hmmm..... I must have missed it when the USA fanatics boarded Terrorist planes and crashed them into the tall buildings in Terrorist town, killing Innocent Terrorist civilians. hmmm...wait...Terrorist civilians, do they even exist? I don't think so, being a terrorist implies NOT being just a civilian, but much more. Ok then, innocent terrorists, wait, oh yeah, terrorists are called such because they do acts of violence to cause terror. Ok then, no innocent terrorist. What about terrorist planes... they might have them... some terrorists are pretty rich....Terrorist town....I laugh....

I would like to explain my thinking with an analgy or two, so bear with me.
ONE
1) Carl beats up Jim on the playground at school, threatens him. Jim's only offence is going to school in the morning.
2)Jim, being smaller and weaker, realizes he can't defend himself, goes and tells the recess supervisor.
3) The supervisor attemps to chase down and punish Carl.
4) Carl runs away, and throws rocks at the supervisor, and also at other (innocent, bystanding) kids on the playground.
TWO
1) Ron walks into a mall.
2) Ron shoots 12 people at random.
3) Ron leaves mall.
4) Ron shoots 12 more people at random.
5) Ron runs down a street.
6) Ron sees a Joe.
7) Ron asks Joe for a ride.
8) Joe gives Ron a ride.
9) Ron shoots Joe in the head and kills him.
10)Ron drives Joe's car into the side of an appartment building.
11)The car's gas tank explodes, killing more than 300 innocents.
12)Ron's friend, who has also killed many innocent people, hijacks another car, and drives it into another building, killing 300 more.

I don't think Carl OR Ron had revenge. They just proformed random acts of violence. Attacking someone tring to justly punish you for something you did wrong is not revenge. It is just more violence.

Zealots can't claim revenge when they attack someone becaus they support basic human rights, or allow freedom of religion, or they educate their women, or don't rule using a mixture of terrorist tactics and anceint religous laws. That is NOT revege, at least in my eyes. Revenge is attacking someone in response to a wrong they unjustly did you.

Saying what happened on the 11th was revenge is a disgrace.

Only someone twisted can say that striving for the rights of the oppressed, striving for equality among all, doing the best job one can do in the attempt to make lives safer for all, and eliminating random acts of terror, of violence, of hate, is something to be AVENGED!!!!


I am disgusted.

I am tired of people BASHING the USA. I am tired of people saying we meddle to much. I am tired of people saying we are too isolationist. You can't make every one happy, but they don't need to attack you when you try. They don't need to pour salt in a wound for trying to help. They don't need to side with the attacker when a criminal strikes out at them.

You people need to open your eyes.

This horror could have happened to your country. It could be you getting kicked in the side by people you once thought as reasonable. It could be you wondering if something might happen in your town. It could be you wondering if another plane might crash into a building, or a biological weapon released within your borders, all for trying to stop it from happing elsewhere in the world.

But, judging from the attitudes expressed by some on this site, that wouldn't happen. You would never try and help someone else, only mock them while they are down, when people they know were killed in a senseless waste of life.

I appologize for two things.
1)The people UNJUSTLY accused here. This is only ment for they people sayin the USA diserved this horror.
2) the long post.

I hope I never become like some of the people on this site. I hope these people are not therule, only the exeption. I hope there is hope for human beings to live in peace one day.



phreak

I think most Americans agree with you. There will bo no pogroms or massacres of Muslims in this country. We've seen isolated incidents and are more wary than we were before, but we're not going to attack our neighbors just because they're Muslim. At my place of employment we've been instructed to watch out for any sign of harrassment, report and deal with it imediately.

One more question before I quite. How are minorities treated in Afganistan, etc? Do Muslim countyries have a history of granting civil rights to people of other faiths? Do they allow churches, synogogues and temples to be taller than their mosques? What is it like to be a Christian, Jew, Ba'hai, Hindu, or anyone of any other religion in a Muslim country?
Now consider, what's it like to be a Muslim in America? Tense? Right now, yes. Persecuted? No. We will not turn on our neighbors and threaten to kill them as has been done to the Christian minoritie in Pakistan. We will not vow to drive them into the ocean, river, sea, or any other body of water, as has been vowed against the state of Israel.
America is the freest country in the world and we will continue to choose freedom, even if the risk is high and the price more than we normally want to pay. We'll pay it, with the same currancy our grandfathers paid at Normandy. End of sermon. Good night.

Of course I watch x-rated shows! Only the good ones, though.

Ahmed, you made rather a cryptic statement: "This "war" is going to bring down lots of people. I fear that quite a few are going to be in the USA. But if we addressed the root cause, now thats a thought." What would you say is the root cause? Osama? If we could find him, we assuredly would not be bombing the crap out of Afghanistan.

I believe the root cause of this conflict is the inability of the most extreme factions of the Muslims in Afghanistan to accept others as human beings. The Israelis and Afghans worship the same chunk of rock because it's the symbol of God. They worship the same God. But they don't want to worship it together - they want that rock for themselves. That conflict has been going on for hundreds - no, thousands - of years.

We put our nose in where it wasn't wanted, assuredly - rather like somebody deciding to step in and break up a bar fight between several very rowdy drunks. We would have been better off letting them kill each other. As self-proclaimed humanitarians, could we have done any less? If they'd asked me, I would have told them not to, but I'm rarely consulted on these foreign policy decisions. And like Uber Phreak, I'm tired of being flamed because my government doesn't always make the right decisions. It's like hating the Afghan people because some cold-blooded killer engineered the deaths of over 6,000 people. I don't hate the Afghan people. I wish we weren't bombing them. But I wasn't consulted on that decision either.

Here is a good place to investigate the alternatives to the bombing of Afghanistan. Quite obviously, they're trying to make it an unviable environment for Bin Laden to operate. If this requires bombing Afghanistan back to the stone age, I think the U.S. is prepared for that. Seeing as his organization is spread throughout the world, there's not really a way to track them all down by bombing. So I think this is an ineffective way to go about solving the problem. But what's an effective way? Any ideas?

I guess one way to take the heat out the current crisis would be to relocate the giant US aircraft carrier based in the Middle East (Israel) to Nevada.

One of our correspondents (a couple of posts back) stated that "America is the freest country in the world". Untruthful arrogant statements such as this go some way to explain why America is not universally loved.

It all depends upon your definition of freedom, I suppose.

Instead of relocating the U.S. aircraft carrier, why don't we bomb Palestine to glass? Then there'll be nothing to fight over... but no, they'll probably worship the crater.

They could actually move the aircraft carrier back, but then they'd need to come up with a better plan than the one they currently are executing... so to speak. Got any ideas?

Something that we all need to realize is that for the most part, we all like where we live. I like living in America. Loony obviously likes living in New Zealand. As for America being the freest... There are some freedoms that we share with other countries, some freedoms that we have exclusively, and some that other countries have that we don't. So getting into a "My country's better" fight won't win us any points, and we'll waste energy typing our retorts. (Yum, I could go for a hot apple retort right about now...)