h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Maybe, but I think that Two Bit's been trying to make the point that he considers only military targets valid and acceptable. That's the impression I've been getting from him.

the devil who masterminded these acts wants, as i believe to make deep, and I am afraid quite violan changes in the Middle East and the Islamic world by making America to face off the Islamic world. I really think so, and I am very fearful of the consequences.
Let us be patient, I know that the wounds are still fresh, and the sorrows are great, but we must not lose our patience.
Peace (please use this word as often as you can!)

the devil who masterminded these acts wants, as i believe to make deep, and I am afraid quite violan changes in the Middle East and the Islamic world by making America to face off the Islamic world. I really think so, and I am very fearful of the consequences.
Let us be patient, I know that the wounds are still fresh, and the sorrows are great, but we must not lose our patience.
Peace (please use this word as often as you can!)

An utopian peaceful world will not be reached any day soon unless Dubbya stops fanning the flames by inappropriately praising the Christian God in most of his speeches.

The man is supposed to be the leader of a secular country that prides itself on allowing its citizens to follow whatever faith they choose to believe in.

Dear Purple Dragon,
Your reasoning is correct. I agree with it. But, don't you know why
they did it? America for these people is the evil empire....
These people (Arabs, Muslims) have been on the 'receiving end' of the
'powers that rule' the earth. They 'feel' the corrupting force of the
West upon their culture and they don't like it. They have tasted the
sting of Israel which was 'planted' in their midst. For a dark pur-
pose, I might add, unbeknownst to the Israelis themselves, who are also victims. I will venture to explain the reasoning of the 'powers
that rule'. And I am not talking about the American people. When I
speak of the 'PTR' I am talking about those conspirators who over many
years have managed to take control of key positions in the American
Governmental Machine and USE the power of this Super Powerful Country for their own aims: To conquer the world, then unite(Globalization)the world, and lastly to put the world under a one government pyramid
type central controlled socialist system; so as to better CONTROL it
all. In order to succeed at uniting this world, THEY have to destroy
the 'connective tissue' that holds everything together.Family,Nation,
Religion. THEY want a NEW WORLD ORDER. The Muslim religion has a very
strong 'hold' on it's 'subjects' and makes demands of it's believers
that no other religion does in every aspect of their lives. Financial
included. By putting those poor fellows(the Israelis) in Palestine,
THEY have created a CONFLICT IN THE MIDDLE EAST/WAR. DIVIDE AND CONQUER...will work there too as it has elsewhere. Result: most Arab
countries have REMOVED their Muslim religion from the workings of the
state. Most, if not all, of their politicians have 'joined' the.....
powers that rule...they have been bought. The moral Muslims see this
and they blame...America...therefore you saw what happened...they are fighting back. But they are stupid, because the American people are
not to blame...they too have been 'taken over' and they don't even know it...!!! From President Roosevelt on till this day America has
not been working for the interests of the American people but for the conspirators...plain and simple.
Thank you for your patience, now please read and re-read in order to
understand what I have written....
Your fellow hitchhiker...............Truemacedonian....

The truth is, as one researcher just pointed out, that this crime is an act of provokation, it's designed to lead the US into commition acts of agression which will justify the terrorists actions, start wars, destablise the whole reason and give them greater purchase and power. What the terrorists want is for the US to go to war with the giovernments of the middle east. Then once those governments are destroyed the terrorists can step into the breach.

It seems an apt time to repeat this post

May suggest everyone posting here go read http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A224623
It is principles such as these that set civil society apart from the barbarians who are responsible for terrorism. May I also say that I don't think these principles exclude the option of taking military action but what they do mean is the purpose of any such action should be place those responsible in custody. Terrorism is not war it is a crime. By referring to it as war you giving the terrorist an accolade they don't deserve, war is fought between soldiers not criminals

Re post 78 and 79 (Hello Bran) - forgiveness in place of a military strike really would be seizing the high ground with both hands. I wish I could believe it were possible. The world *would* have changed if it were.

Does forgiveness need to mean giving up on following the judicial or political routes? If judicial means identifying and trying suspects, and political means looking at why and how this happened and finding ways to prevent it happening again?

Does it even mean stopping being angry? Doesn't it simply mean choosing not to take an eye for an eye?

Forgiving certainly doesn't mean burying your head in the sand, so i would say that political and judicial routes and the only sane way forward.

I think that if we wanted a world body to indict bin Laden they'd do it in a heart beat. Seeing as this is a crime committed against Amercians and in violation of American laws it's totally unnecisary to involve an international court. I think with American jurisprudence, bin Laden and his co-conspirators would probably have a their best chance in an American court. (If I were them, I'd prefer a bench trial to a jury trial though. Then again, a jury acquitted OJ.)

We're getting a phenomanl amount of support from the rest of the world. I'm kind of surprised by it. It actually makes me a little nervous when so many nations are lining up with the United States.

My biggest fear is that this may be the catalyst that moves us from a republic to an empire.

There has been some great discussion here. No I don't reckon forgiveness means forgetting due process and not following legal and political and diplomatic means. I am just very concerned that the cost of any retaliation will be too great in the end, that the price will not be worth it. If the aim of the strike was to provoke, then it has worked, and to follow that up with retaliation would be pandering to what the terrorists want. Forgiveness would be a very hard choice, but would give the U.S. the moral high ground (as suggested in an earlier post), and take the wind out the the terrorists' rhetoric.

Though, I also have the acknowledge that I reckon many of them are past the point of redemption - I doubt many extremists are actually rational people who are open to argument, and changing their beleifs on the basis of a selfless act. But, who knows?

(Hi Waz, thanks for your post - I've yet to reply to our other one).

Bran.

A quick after thought - as I heard an American priest saying on T.V. soon after the attack: if we insist on an eye for an eye and a tooth for as tooth, then we will end up with an eyeless and toothless world (apparently said by Christ - but I am no Bible scholar).
B.

I'm a little concerned about the logistical problems that are bound to arise when 45,000 American troops line up to arrest bin Laden

why did the Bush call the current campaign a "Crusade"!!
my god, he should be really careful of using such terms.....where are his advisors?
and please remember that terrorist are "CREATED" not born....
we must have justice in this world and look at the causes of these terrible acts as well as finding the person behind them, otherwise it is already a lost war!

Truemacedonian,

When I wrote before there was no evidence pointing to any parties being responsible for the attacks. Certainly none that I was prepared to accept at face value.

I am indeed aware of the issues you bring up. More so now than I was - a friend pointed me in the direction of many archived news articles about Yemen, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and the American military training of arab soldiers and dissidents and the American influence over politics.

I am also worried by the religious tags being associated with all of this. As people keep on pointing out Islam does not condone the slaughter of others any more than Christianity. But the fact that large numbers of people in the arab countries follow a different faith, with different customs, have different colour skin and so on makes it very easy to say that their religion is why they are the enemy. (last I heard a Sikh man had been shot dead in america for being one of 'the enemy')

This posting contains gaps and holes in what I'm saying because I really ought to finish now and go back to work