h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

My Gothic friend keeps getting into fights because people find him intimidating. He's 6'3 dressed all in black with a spikey dog collar and acts extremely nonchalant, and myself being a grand total of 5'2 in shoes, can understand where the fear comes from, but why the urge to fight? I mean, he talks to people only if they start up a conversation with him. What's so offensive? He obviously is veiwed as a major threat, seeing as how there is usually 60+ people aganst him when they try to start a fight. Not that they ever get a rise out of him, though he could definitely kick there *** any day. I think he's a black belt or something...maybe

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Well that's weird. I wonder why people keep picking fights with him, then?
Usually (from what I've heard) the people in bars who are most likely to cause trouble are the short ones, who pick on the biggest b*****d they can find, just to show that they can. I wonder if it's the same sort of mentality at work here?

whered you get the name saturnine from?

I wouldn't call all of this lies, much of it is true - but I have never heard of the dancing style described - it sounds more like line dancing than anything Goth I've ever seen - all the Goths I know headbang, and as for nonviolent - they are all mashing into each other in the mosh pit! Though, only in a friendly way you realise - Goths generally are nonviolent, except when feeling genuinely threatened, or possibly when confronted by townies/trendies/chavs/scallies/neds/scum.

It seems that the author of this entry would classify me as a "wannabe", which I'm a little hurt by. I often share the same Goth mindset, but do not always dress like a goth, mainly because chokers and claw-rings get a little uncomfortable after a while. I dress like a "mosher" or a Skater most of the time (I can classify myself as a Skater, I do skate), I dress more Gothily for parties and gigs. I enjoy being Goth, it makes me feel free, and a little scary, which is fun. I do not always classify myself as a Goth - in accordance with the Goth mindset I am an individual, free to be who I like.

I would like to add that, in my opinion, Marilyn Manson is not only a Goth, he's also very good at it.

Ah, a nice example of the diversity of the Goth secene. The places/concerts I frequent do generally not feature the mosh pit. And if they do the security and paramedics all look rather bored because of said non-violence.

As for classifying you ... how could I do that, given that I don't know you? Moreover, I stated that the mindset is the decicive element, IMO, not the dress.


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Where did I get the name Saturnine from? It's a Smashing Pumpkins song. Check it out.

Dunno if i'm a Goth or not, though I suspect I may be. Seems to me that a lot of what Goth means can be applied to the way of life that I've chosen. Regarding having to have studied martial arts: Wha?? surely this is trash. In all honesty you could knock seven shades of **** out of me and I'd still have my inner peaceful self, but then again thats me and I'm naturally submissive. I'd cry yes, but not through pain - I can channel pain in to beauty; through sadness that whoever it was needed to or knew no other way of life - and sometimes through happiness that I'd helped them and been there at the right time so as some other poor soul didnt get the thrashing instead of me. Society saddens me like this frequently. If someone who is Goth kicks someones ass I'd assume that it would sadden them that they had to in order to make it blaringly obvious that they had as much right to survive as the oppressor(s).

ian
x

ok. I'm studying a dissertation on the gothic scene, and have been involved in it for about ten years. Most goths are mainly non violent and as an explaination ogf goth, the site is about as accuate as it gets. As for drugs. I know nothing about that officer....

we're not totally non violent some of us will get into fights but usually (i'm not saying all the time, so don't bite my head off) only if somebody else pisses us off. we usually don't start them

How very odd. Over here, Goths don't dance back to front, they dance side to side. Maybe in a daring mood, they'll go zig-zag to the front and back again. When I'm feeling bold I might even start jumping from side to side. Fact is that almost everyone does something with their arms and almost everyone is looking down.

And as far as I know, every Goth I've met is very tolerant and non-violent.

So which country is 'over here' for you, Schmerzengel?

As an aside, I've just found out that my city has a reputation for having 'happy goths'. Aparrantly this is because we do all our moping in private, rather than where anyone else can see it as tends to happen everywhere else...
It's still a weird concept to me. Just thought I'd mention it.

Personally, I think that using the label 'goth' to stereotype is really just a crutch that society uses to explain something it can't. I've known goths that come in all shapes and sizes- druggies, straight edges, rehabs, violent ones, anger management ones, happy ones, suicidals, mentally unstables, gays, straights, bisexuals, transexuals, asexuals, 'real' goths, 'poser' goths, etc. Heck, I've even been called a poser because I only dress 'goth' sometimes. That really gets me, because I fit their definition of 'real' goth- the whole depressed, Wiccan thing- I just don't dress it all the time

My own personal definition of goth- someone who doesn't conform, someone who's him/herself, someone creative. They may tend more towards the darker clothing, the goth music, the existentialist art, but they don't have to fit the stereotype. But that's just my opinion.

"...using the label 'goth' to stereotype is really just a crutch that society uses..." In a thread next to this one, I've already mentioned how the need to pidgeonhole new experiences/people/concepts/etc is the only way our minds can learn new things. If people didn't do it we'd have died out millions of years ago. It /is/ unfortunate, but there we go.

"I've known goths that come in all shapes and sizes..." Yep. It depends how finely you want to filter through classifications, as to how accurate they can be. Society->culture->subculture(goths)->particlisation->etc. Then there's cross-stratification based on sexuality, religion, traits, drug use...

Every rule has its exceptions, including this one. And every subculture definition has people who fit the subculture but not its definition. So it really doesn't matter.

As for your own experiences, stargaterdii, has it ever occured to you that the people who called you a poser for only dressing 'goth' sometimes, are themselves insecure and rejective? If you consider yourself a goth, there's nothing they can say to make you wrong, no matter how you choose to dress or so.

Some of my closest friends are 'closet-goths'; They have everything pertaining to being a goth except the clothes and the alternative lifestyle. Doesn't mean they're not goths. It's just that most people would never know.

If you thought I meant to call anyone a poser- that was not my intention. What I meant to say is I know people who have been labelled poser, or call themselves posers. The point I was trying to make was that by my definition, there aren't really any posers. If you think you are goth, most likely you are. It's only my opinion, though.

Oh absolutely! I was almost completely agreeing with you.

...Although reading back over my post now it actually wasn't very obvious, was it? Sorry.

But yes you're right.

Thanks for clarifying. I was afraid I had offended you or something. And that's something I hate doing- offending people.

Which, incedentally, is a very goth trait. The hating of offending of people, that is... not the offending of people.

Sorry again for the misunderstanding, and thanks for being cool about it.

Firstly back to the actual thread of this conversation, I disagree. I don't know very many goths so I have very little to relate to, and I can relate to most of what is said.
But, there is one vital thing thats been left out, which is that Goth's are who they are, only for themselves. Goths aren't goths just to look cool, and certainly not to fit in. I think the gothic lifestyle finds you, rather than you finding it. And a goth definately isn't copying anyone - that would definately make you a wannabe.
Sorry if anyone disagrees. Please no-one shout at me

Lu x

Well i no goth pasifists and i no goths that actually beat people up for a living. and with drugs its the same, some are heavy some rarely take and some never touch em... it isnt definite that goths are mostly this or that it all depends on who they are just like everyone else. But i have actually found that less violence does tend to occur at a goth party or gig though the reasons for this are unclear to me

CND! Does absinthe count as a drug? And to the best of my recognition, Goth is passive. I've never seen a goth start on someone because of how they looked. I've seen thrash metlers, rockers, punks, skaters etc do it. But never a goth.

And drugs are a part of any culture. Robert Smith was on drugs but so was Eminem. Get my drift?