h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I don't mind joking about my beliefs (as long as it isn't hypocritical - but that's what most people are afraid of!) After all, I think God created humour... though you wouldn't believe it if you looked in on most Churches on a Sunday morning!
As I said, I'm not hugely knowledgable about the technicalities of theology, so I'll let Roasted Amoeba or someone answer you if they like.
But for me, it isn't logic and theology that makes me believe in God. Sure, I think that there is no way in which God could *not* exist, but I didn't work it all out before making a decision to give my life over to God. Faith is a difficult thing to define... most people say faith is belief without proof, but I think it is more than that. In my Christian life I experience things which are difficult or impossible to explain. Joy, for example. Not continuously (I am in fact a manic depressant) but the joy I do experience when in closeness with God is like no other. And having your prayers answered is amazing.
I can't believe I'm trying to have a serious discussion on H2G2...
After the service in a pentecostal church: 'Hands down who wants coffee!'
How many atheists does it take to screw in a light bulb? None - atheists question whether it's really light anyway.
How many Christian fundamentalists does it take to screw in a light bulb? None - the Bible doesn't mention light bulbs.
Sorry - couldn't resist those

anyone fancy a pint

anyone fancy a pint?

alright.
*Grabs a goblet d_b of communion wine and downs it*

If faith is belief without proof than I have no faith. I either need physical proof to believe something or some kind of logic or personal experience. I absolutely cannot believe Jesus was the son of God in a way different that we are 'sons of God'. This means my beliefs can only be changed by logical argument or physical evidence - both of which this argument lacks . Uptil now, any argument trying to prove the existance of God, even logically, has not changed my mind. It normally says God must exist to explain what is unexplainable - i.e. we can't understand how the universe was created so we say 'God did it'.

Watcha Psyguy.
I wasn't actually referring to your post: you appear to be making valid comments. I meant the other blokey.

Ack ack ack

I'm confused.

Ack.

You've all been waiting for it (or not)... my opinion...

Okay, well, I have to agree that faith is belief in something without proof. However, that doesn't mean that evidence invalidates faith. And evidence and proof are two totally different things, as I'm sure you'll agree-- proof is absoloute (like truth), and evidence is largely personal and subject to whim (though not totally invaladated by such things).

Now, as to needing physical proof and such... let's try this. Take some abstract that you believe exists, whether love or hate or whatever. Something you can't touch and is possible to have never felt. Yet, I'm guessing that it's likely that you'd believe it exists anyway, because you've heard other talk about how they love something or hate someone or whatever the case may be. Like I've never actually experienced true love, but I'm convinced it exists because of what I've seen in the world around me. It's not so different with God. I've never seen/touched/heard God, but I know He exists because of myriad things in the universe-- from the underlying perfection and order to my friends' accounts and so forth. I simply do. To quote C.S. Lewis, "Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things - trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself. Suppose we have. Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones. Suppose this black pit of a kingdom of yours is the only world. Well it strikes me as a pretty poor one. And that's a funny thing, when you come to think of it. We're just babies making up a game, if you're right. But four babies playing a game can make a play-world which licks your world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the play world. I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it. I'm going to live as a Narnian as I can even if there isn't any Narnia." (The Silver Chair) Even if I've only fallen for the greatest hoax ever made, it's a good one, and I'm actually proud that I have.

Last little thing: you say the logical argument you usually hear is the "God must exist to explain what is unexplainable" argument. You also say that you are only swayed by logical argument. The normal argument usually goes along these lines-- We don't know how the universe was created. We have two possible explainations. One, we can go through the hugmongous scientific/mathematic process and say that somehow everything in the universe came into being because of the collisions of a few of the "right" atoms in the "right" time in the "right" place. (and of course, there's that "Thing" that started the collions in the first place, but that's a different argument). Two, we can simply say that a all-knowing, all-powerful God created it all. By the scientific principle Occam's Razor (which goes something like: all things being equal, the simplest explaination is usually the right one), choice numero 2 is the right one." Now, what I don't get is that, since you say that your beliefs can "only be changed by logical argument...", you still say that logical argument cannot change your mind. Therefore, unless my logic's clouded today, you aren't believing in God because of some other reason, not logic. Please re-explain this to me. However, when you take into account that religion, whether Christianity or whatever, is not supposed to be based on logic but on proof, the whole argument that logic can found beliefs is voided....

I'm sorry. That's much too serious. And it probably has a few logical holes in it as well... but I'm only 17... don't beat me for trying to express my beliefs.

If you look at the threads in the window to the left, you'll see what I'm on about.
Once you do, could you please tell me what it is? I really have no idea what I'm on about half the time.

Neither do I!!

I think I understand . Except for "Watcha Psyguy" - did you mean I'm overstepping lines with my argument? Going to far questioning theologists? Understanding yourself isn't always necessary. I cannot believe Wee Willy understands what he means by 'Common Sense'. Am I making sense?

No. It's really quite simple:
"Watcha" means "hello" and "Psyguy" is you. Do you see?
You can never ask to many questions. If there were 'forbidden questions' then there WOULD be flaws. Bad ones.
I'm glad I don't need to understand myself. Sometimes I do the strangest things - don't I mother.
Mother?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The pins! [etc]

Ummm......

I think we've all managed to successfully confuse each other!
By the way, anyone who wants it, Big Mad Mr T has drawn a really hoopy 'H2G2 Christians' piccy to put on our pages, to show, well, that we're on H2G2 and we're Christians. (Hope I'm not stealing your thunder, BMMrT, just there's probably people hanging round here that aren't in the other forum!)
Round of applause for Big Mad Mr T!

*blushes*
Shawks, well, thanks... I suppose I'll let you put it on your pages...

...and we link it back to the H2G2 Christians page.

indeed.

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I've just got back from CYFA.
While I was there, a thought struck me:
why don't I [rhetorical] make a shockwave animation of the "Two ways to live" Christianity explanation thing so we could put it on the Bible in 50 Wds section on H2G2?
So: do you think I should? Or has it been done before? If it has, is it likley that I could do it better? Comments please.

I can't say I've heard of it before, but it sounds interesting. Can you explain more? Or maybe point me towards somewhere on the internet where I can find it?

*points*