A Conversation for Ask h2g2

ending the torture in Iraq

Post 7261

Baron Grim

Also remember that Bush used the term 'crusade' repeatedly the week after Sept 11th refering to "this crusade, this war against terror". And also remember the original name for the invasion of Afghanistan was called "Operation Infinite Justice". "Infinite Justice" was not an accidental use of terms. "Infinite Justice" is something that only Allah can dispense! After this term offended Muslims the name was changed to "Operation Enduring Freedom".


crusades

Post 7262

rev. paperboy (god is an iron)

I would argue that religion has a great deal to do with the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan and the war on terror. None of them are religious wars per se, but the religion beliefs of each side have a great deal to do with how and why they fight. Bush's Christian fundementalist beliefs lead him to view things in black and white terms with no shades of grey. You are either a valued ally or a freedom-hating evildoer. The opponents in all three wars (The Taliban, Al-Qaida and Al-Sadr's Shiite milita) are now mostly fundementalist muslims. A coincidence? Hardly. The cultural clash between modern western values and fundementalist muslim values is a major underlying cause of these wars.


crusades

Post 7263

Lostit - Instigator of the Chaos for Thingite

Here is one piece of evidence that states that this war is a lot to do with religion (its front -the back is not to convincing) but with the terrorist watchlist, all the terror groups around the world got named. All the terrorist groups that were named were muslim and groups like the IRA for example are not considered terrorist.
The crusades and the lead up to WWII seems to ring echoes of today.
We learn history to prevent the repeatition of the same mistakes, not how to do it better.


crusades

Post 7264

trunt

This isn't my discovery and I know a lot of people are unconvinced but:

Shekinah "Judaism A visible manifestation of the divine presence as described in Jewish theology. " http://www.bartleby.com/61/25/S0332500.html

Shock and Awe A visible manifestation of American presence as described in Rumsfeldian theology.

I don't see it as a coincidence of sound. Especially when they give the biggest conventional bomb in history the Biblical name Moab.

Anybody that doesn't think this is a religious war on both sides really doesn't see what's happening, IMHO.


crusades

Post 7265

Lentilla (Keeper of Non-Sequiturs)

The Crusades and the war in Iraq have a lot more in common than you think. The Crusades were ostensibly about 'releasing the lands from the tyranny of Mohammed,' but in reality they were about getting land and money for the royal families of France, England and Spain.

Today we're trying to bring an enlightened democracy to Iraq, and attempting to rid it of the tyranny of Saddam Hussein and the military-political complex that's reigned there ever since the U.S. and Britain removed the royal families in power in that region. But essentially it boils down to getting oil and grabbing land.

George W. Bush gives face value to religious tolerance, but he's an evangelical Christian, and the fire-and-brimstone religion he subscribes to says that unless you're his brand of Christian, you're going to hell. He expects that by bringing democracy to Iraq, all the other trappings that America takes for granted will follow - like color televisions in every home, a chicken in every sink, and a cross over every door.


crusades

Post 7266

trunt

"a chicken in every sink"

?


We keep our out back in the coop. Don't they jump out of the sink? Or, do you mean a dead chicken? We keep those in the fridge or the freezer. Don't they get stinky in the sink?


smiley - winkeye


crusades

Post 7267

Lentilla (Keeper of Non-Sequiturs)

smiley - evilgrin Just checking to see if anybody noticed...


ending the torture in Iraq

Post 7268

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

Exactly. Our local paper had a quote from the Independent to the effect that "90% of the prisoners were arrested by accident" - in other words, they know nothing at all!


crusades

Post 7269

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

<>
Yes, I remember that - it just weirded me out. So strange and scary!


crusades

Post 7270

clzoomer- a bit woobly

Wasn't it: *A chicken in every pot, a Model T in every garage, and pot in every pipe?* No, wait, that's something else....smiley - winkeye

Actually it was Herbert Hoover in the 1928 US presidential campaign: " A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage."

Although he was misquoted by many sources, including the Ford Motor Company that included the Model T and A in it's version.

Oooh! I just said T and A!!! smiley - rofl


crusades

Post 7271

abbi normal "Putting on the Ritz" with Dr Frankenstein

http://www.mediamatters.com

About the worst media America has to offer in IMOsmiley - ill
He is still on the air spewing.
*warning* the offensive Rush Limbaugh and a M Savage commentary.
The Bushies have no interest in censoring these two.
***********
President Bush went to the scheduled National Prayer service the same week of the announcement of the prison pictures.
He was still using phrases like the moral authority....
and how God is on his side..
************
Good or bad it is being said Bush has changed American Domestic policy as much as FDR. He has changed International policy as much as Wilson and Truman.


crusades

Post 7272

abbi normal "Putting on the Ritz" with Dr Frankenstein

http://www.time.com/time/columnist/klein/article/0,9565,634641,00.html
The Perils of the President
Not pearls of the prez!smiley - yikes


crusades

Post 7273

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

abbi, sorry, that link didn't work, exactly.
<<President Bush went to the scheduled National Prayer service the same week of the announcement of the prison pictures.
He was still using phrases like the moral authority....
and how God is on his side..>>
Moral authority? Retch, gag, sp*w! Does *he* believe the spite he shouts, I wonder?


crusades

Post 7274

abbi normal "Putting on the Ritz" with Dr Frankenstein

Sorry-
The same article is in the NY times also.

Hope this works.
More pressure from the Bishops to vote for Bush or lose communion in the church.
smiley - ermI hope this one works.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3305653/detail.html?treets=den&tml=den_12pm&ts=T&tmi=den_12pm_1_01000005142004

Aparently I am not the only one having a problem with it.
The solution was for Rumy to announce that the beheading made those persons lose their moral authority. smiley - weird


crusades

Post 7275

abbi normal "Putting on the Ritz" with Dr Frankenstein

Joe Klein -columnist
This is an excerp and it has been one of the most poular to be viewed.

"After his grudging public apology for the behavior of U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison, George W. Bush attended a ceremony commemorating the National Day of Prayer. His remarks there were, as we have come to expect from this President, a stirring mix of humility and certainty. "God is not on the side of any nation, yet we know He is on the side of justice," Bush said. "Our finest moments [as a nation] have come when we have faithfully served the cause of justice for our own citizens, and for the people of other lands."

The words are wonderful, but such sentiments are easily corrupted. Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced. We are humble before the Lord, Bush insists. We cannot possibly know His will. And yet, we "know" He's on the side of justice—and we define what justice is. Indeed, we can toss around words like justice and evil with impunity, send off mighty armies to "serve the cause of justice" in other lands and be so sure of our righteousness that the merest act of penitence—an apology for an atrocity—becomes a presidential crisis. "This is not the America I know," Bush said of the torturers, as if U.S. soldiers were exempt from the temptations of absolute power that have plagued occupying armies from the beginning of time."
From timeonline smiley - applause Joe Klein


crusades

Post 7276

(crazyhorse)impeach hypatia

bush is using religous rhetoric as a weapon to stir up hatred for muslims worlwide and hiding behind christianity to cover up his war crimesI.E the bombing of innoccent civilians and mosques and the desecration of holy sites


crusades

Post 7277

Lostit - Instigator of the Chaos for Thingite

Things are not always as they seem.
Remember this, the psyops were there, they always there.
The largest bombs were used in Afghanistan.
A women was used in those pictures to humilate the Muslim more, since women are considered second-class in the Middle-East.
The war on drugs, the war on terror, the war on poverty.
Bush tried to past an act in congress known as the Patriot Act Part II which stated if America was in war there would be no elections.
Patriot Act Part I, Homeland Security.
One must not look at what's there, one must look at what's not there, because one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
But the liberator is also the terrorist.


crusades

Post 7278

abbi normal "Putting on the Ritz" with Dr Frankenstein

Moores movie Farenheit 911 will be seen todaysmiley - ok
*waits for the reviews*


crusades

Post 7279

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

<>
He did? This is appalling, and I wonder why we heard nowt about it in NZ... smiley - peacedove


crusades

Post 7280

DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me!

I heard it got a 20 minute ovation at Cannes. Yay! smiley - peacedove


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