A Conversation for Ask h2g2
What's Wrong With Americans
Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde Posted Mar 1, 2003
Herrrmmm... maybe an answer to this thread's main question can be somewhat answered by what the Associated Press has released today. The government is going to try tagging possible security threats (read: passengers!!! REAL PEOPLE!!!!) with Delta Air Lines at three undisclosed airports later this month.
[I have tried to find the news article to share, but it's only located, for me, in AOL news....]
That's patriotic. And let's make the semi-threat tags blue, and the non-threatening ones white. It'll be aesthetic, too.
Are we only a few steps away from McCarthyism again!??
What's Wrong With Americans
DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! Posted Mar 2, 2003
Anhaga, we here in NZ get most of our news through the USA (2/5 TV channels and half of the radio stations are American/Canadian owned) - the other half are owned by Australians (I think). But it all adds up to confusion - the same news item can mutate dramatically between media, and ownership thereof! I listen to the BBC World Service as often as I can, for a different perspective. How's the weather there in 'America North'? (I was engaged to a Canadian once (nice guy, but too young to settle down.)
What's Wrong With Americans
anhaga Posted Mar 2, 2003
I get my main news from cbc.ca (although many up hear think that it's too left wing [which to me means accurate and truthful]). I look at CNN.com sometimes for a laugh.
As far as the weather goes, it depends where you are. The flowers are coming out where CL Zoomer is, I expect it's still nasty on the east coast, and I just took a ten minute drive from my parents' house: I started out in a whiteout blizzard and by the time I got home I was in bright sunshine and water was flowing down the streets. My friend's father was golfing last week. You want weather, doesn't matter what it is, come to Canada.
What's Wrong With Americans
DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! Posted Mar 3, 2003
It sounds like Auckland where we live - the slogan is 'Four seasons in one day!' Yesterday,f'r instance, rain in the morning, bright sunshine later. Today, freezing cold in the morning, sun by 08.30 hrs! Do you hate it when people take you for an American when you go overseas? Josef always did...
What's Wrong With Americans
anhaga Posted Mar 3, 2003
Actually, my only really negative experience of being mistaken for another nationality was repeatedly being mistaken for German in Southern Italy. But as soon as they found out where I was from they treated me very well. I'm grateful for this to a friend of mine who passed away recently: he fought the Germans all through the region I was in (including at Ortona) and prepared the wonderful reception I received four decades later.
One experience that perplexed me was while crossing the street in Paris two tourists stopped me and just started speaking English to me. I answered their question (they were asking directions) and then I asked one of my own: "what made you expect that I would understand English?" "Oh, I don't know. I never really thought about it," one responded.
I don't know that I've ever been mistaken for an American when travelling.
What's Wrong With Americans
DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! Posted Mar 3, 2003
Thanks to Josef, I learned the subtle differences in accent - and the not-so subtle differences in attitude. Americans abroad act pretty much as Romans must have in AD65... Lords of creation, sort of thing. We have heaps of Americans in NZ, fewer Canadians. My great-grandfather came to NZ from Canada in the 1870s, his family had been part of a failed Presbyterian colony from Scotland, in Nova Scotia. In a parallel universe, he stayed there, and I am a Canadian myself!Oh, and my father stayed in Canada on his hitch-hiker's tour of the world in the 1940s/50s and so that accounts for both sides of the family...
What's Wrong With Americans
Child of Saunola Posted Mar 4, 2003
I would like to say something because it is a importent thing to say something about...but because I can´t get it right in english anywhay, I will just say!
´
And please GOD, NO WAR!
/ C.o.S.
What's Wrong With Americans
Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde Posted Mar 4, 2003
me too. Me too. Without reservation, give us peace. In the English language the phrase "peace and quiet" is often used. That would be nice.
I believe in debate. I believe in voicing opinions. But furthermore, I believe in people LISTENING to one another. It's apparent that the stuffy white men in suits have suffered from selective hearing ever since stuffy men began wearing suits.
They aren't listening to the people, and that makes me wish they didn't get a voice at all-- to have a voice means to have some power. The citizens of the world have spoken against this violence and insult to humanity. And the corrupt people with power (yeah, it includes some women and minorities!!!) keep speaking and they aren't hushed. They are not listening. Or, most likely, they don't care what others have to say.
I'm afraid we're in for some sad sad times. And I'm searching some humor for it. If I get too involved with emotions, the bottom might fall out for me, as I imagine it may all ready have for many others.
Americans are starting to guard themselves with weapons of mass hysteria: parachutes are being advertised for $1500. I saw a mother on the news a couple weeks ago... she was getting her infant daughter to take out her pacifier so as to TRY ON A GASMASK. For an infant child.
My mother's discussed duct taping the master suite (no computer there!!! ), having food and bottled water, batteries, candles, a radio, sleeping bags, etc... all at the ready in case of bioterrorism.
I've teared up pretty often-- more often than I would like to-- in public. There is no excuse for this. Well, there is. And it's not our fault for being mere citizens. I especially feel sorry for the military.
And that's just when I limit my thinking to this country. God Lord... shouldn't even think THAT much... and then thinking beyond these borders...
OH!!! BY THE WAY.... <>
That's a scary and sad concept to me. But I have to say there must be a seed of truth in it. I know for myself that the company I keep is not that way-- very humble, eager to accept other cultures and not just run to McDonald's when abroad. Of course, these people are also educated (and have studied either history or literature passionately, thus accounting for an appreciation of various cultures). The ugly American syndrome is alive and well. But please, not all of us are like that.
It's always easier to criticize than to praise. And... perhaps it's very difficult for the majority of the U.S. population to even THINK that a foreign nation/culture might have something marvelous to offer besides a pretty postcard and another passport stamp.
What's Wrong With Americans
DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! Posted Mar 4, 2003
>>OH!!! BY THE WAY.... <>
That's a scary and sad concept to me. But I have to say there must be a seed of truth in it. I know for myself that the company I keep is not that way-- very humble, eager to accept other cultures and not just run to McDonald's when abroad. Of course, these people are also educated (and have studied either history or literature passionately, thus accounting for an appreciation of various cultures). The ugly American syndrome is alive and well. But please, not all of us are like that.<<
I take your point Archangel,many of the Americans I meet here in NZ are as I described, though truthfully, not all.
The rest of your post is interesting - I am sad to think of your mother and other citizens like her, being so afraid - I don't think there's any risk there, or here in Oz or in NZ, because I think terrorism is an *excuse* for war, not a reason! What ever the real story of 9/11 and our great-grandchildren may know things about it that would amaze us if we knew ... whatever the real story, my is for the Iraqi people, they're the ones at real risk. Your Mum and people like her are being used by the stuffy men in suits!
What's Wrong With Americans
Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde Posted Mar 4, 2003
You don't think people with Mid-Eastern sympathies and anti-American feelings aren't going to retaliate when we start bombing Baghdad!?? We are really quite alone in this war. Even U.S. citizens admit that our anger over 9/11 is no excuse for attacking Iraq.
There will be retaliation. Hopefully only verbal retaliation.
But I'm not too concerned. Nothing I can really do. I'm not afraid of death. It's the living that scares me. It's the living that's pain.
Della
What's Wrong With Americans
Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde Posted Mar 5, 2003
And yes, the Iraqi people are at great risk. It's absolutely wrong.
But there are worlds of difference in the U.S. and in Iraq. I'll blindly say-- ASSUME-- that the Iraqi people are a bit "accustomed" to turmoil.
Americans assume-- have assumed for much of their history-- that they are untouchable. Our land is sacred, "from sea to shining sea". We couldn't imagine 9/11. We thought we were invincible.
And there is much to be said for religion. It shapes who people are, and gives us all identity-- even in the atheist.
There is much to be said for living in an immense country where you are permitted to drive miles and miles and miles and miles... I'm trying to say that laws are different... MUST be somehow different there...
What does wealth mean in the Middle East!?? I honestly have a poor understanding of the Middle East, an understanding based on television, a little reading, and propaganda. But I know that in this society, we all endeavor to make money, obtain independence through some form of transport (often a car), and... eat well, and eat BIG dinners.
And many of us shop in very big stores-- I'm trying to say that we have an overabundance of PRODUCTS. And I am guessing this is not so in Iraq.
We are, perhaps, not "good" at coping with loss, with a lack of material possessions, creature comforts... Perhaps we are the weaker society because we are so spoiled.
I do feel bad for the Iraqis. I can't speak for all U.S. citizens, however. It took a great deal of argument for my mother to understand that innocent people will be killed and injured because war technology-- and human beings-- are far from perfect. You see, it seems a bit too common (but there are forever exceptions to every rule) that the U.S. knows VERY LITTLE about what goes on in the rest of the world.
Yeah. I think I may have lost my argument somewhere....
I want to say that I recognise the risk the Middle East is at. The threat is greater for them. And I'm not saying their lives are not valuable, that they do not have rational human fears. But-- I live here, not there. I'm among the people, I'm not the govt the world sees represented on an impersonal screen.
And I feel for the people who still love this nation. THEY are not choosing this war. People everywhere are justified in hating this country. And those who do not choose violence may be the victims of it.
And I absolutely agree, Dell(a!?? Short-term memory), that my mother is a victim of the media's fears.
There's so much to say, so much to think about!!!
What's Wrong With Americans
DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! Posted Mar 5, 2003
Thank you for your thoughtfulness - I admit I am tactless sometimes - I did not want to imply that Americans are so insulated that none of them care about the fate of the rest of the world.
I fear that there will be retaliation and that it will be much more than verbal! However, we hear about all your yellow and orange alerts, don't you all suffer 'alert fatigue', when Tom Ridge announces there will be yet another event, and nothing happens? Latest I heard, from a very pro-American commentator on NZ radio, is that there will a symbolic but real attack on Pearl Harbour. I dismissed this because it was *supposed* to have happened within the last 2 weeks.
It's all very well to sit here in NZ and have a sick feeling (as I did seeing tanks and planes pictured on the front page of the World section - armaments which are already in Iraq - we're not at risk. We might be actually, as the Waihopai spy base (just north of Auckland where we live) is allegedly part of the 'Echelon' electronic spy system.. Shudders went everywhere over my spine when I saw a headline yesterday on CNN about American warships being sent to the Pacific to counter North Korea.
This *could* be the beginning of World War 3, and many of the 280 million Americans *are* insulated and ignorant of world opinion. I understand your fears and those of your mother.
As far as I know, from Middle Eastern people I have met, in that part of the world, people are less individualistic than Americans tend to be, and though there are a fair few materialistic business minded people among them, many here are understandably sick with anxiety about their families. (My son went to school with two little girls from the former Yugoslavia and I spoke to their mothers, who were too worried about family back home to be able to care much about their families here, and with a little boy whose father is Iranian. The family went there on holiday in 1997, but they wouldn't now. The child's name is Khalid, the name of 'Al Qaeda master-mind' currently being subject to torture right now! My son's friend was a fat little white skinned, blue eyed blond boy - as a result of a quirk of genetics that had even the family doctor asking Jan (NZ mother who grew up in my town) if she had been playing around!) But that's my take on Middle Easterners. I even briefly dated a guy from Iran,back when *they* were the enemy of the USA. (Early '80s).
What's Wrong With Americans
T´mershi Duween Posted Mar 6, 2003
.
Now that this thread is resurrected, I must say that one thing wrong with americans is, that they don´t force a regimechange in whashington DC.
T´mershi Duween.
What's Wrong With Americans
Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde Posted Mar 6, 2003
Good point. Very good point.
What's Wrong With Americans
Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde Posted Mar 6, 2003
Maybe we're too lazy and selfish. Maybe a lot of our lack of enthusiasm for rallying to overthrow the king-- I mean-- the tyrant-- I mean--- the president-- is because those of us who have been watching his politics are also aware of a draft for a Second Patriot Act.
It's something very very scary. If passed, it would mean that U.S. Citizens can be deported for supporting terrorist interests. Attending an anti-war rally, posting to online conversations like this, encouraging the U.N. to discourage the war.... All would provide more than enough "Evidence" needed to deport a U.S. citizen to Somalia. And there's no fair trial, in spite of what the Bill of Rights say.
So that could be a good reason why no one SEEMS to be doing anything. You know you can't trust the media to tell you what's really happening. We just don't know.
And it's also a bit easier for someone outside the situation to say, "Why didn't you do something!??" like in the case of domestic abuse situations. Relationships are quite confusing.
What's Wrong With Americans
DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! Posted Mar 6, 2003
You have a point, Dragonfly... We watch '24' and the like (I've been chided for mistaking them for real life, but even so, the amount of manipulation and misdirection that goes on, would make me dead scared to be an American right now - if one's point of view was non-standard, that is... Overthrow Bush! Regime change now! Echelon, do your worst!
What's Wrong With Americans
J Posted Mar 6, 2003
While I didn't want to defend americans in this forum, although I am one, I feel that some things said here are completely out of line. For the record, yes a lot of the stereotypes are correct, but by saying that NONE of Americans care about the world, you're saying something that can be disproven by 6 letters, as an American
I do care about the world
I realize just my saying this doesn't make it so, but you'll have to take my word. Americans are not all bad, I feel you're being a bit harsh, biased as that may seem
Key: Complain about this post
What's Wrong With Americans
- 2581: Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde (Mar 1, 2003)
- 2582: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Mar 2, 2003)
- 2583: anhaga (Mar 2, 2003)
- 2584: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Mar 3, 2003)
- 2585: anhaga (Mar 3, 2003)
- 2586: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Mar 3, 2003)
- 2587: Child of Saunola (Mar 4, 2003)
- 2588: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Mar 4, 2003)
- 2589: Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde (Mar 4, 2003)
- 2590: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Mar 4, 2003)
- 2591: Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde (Mar 4, 2003)
- 2592: Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde (Mar 5, 2003)
- 2593: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Mar 5, 2003)
- 2594: T´mershi Duween (Mar 6, 2003)
- 2595: Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde (Mar 6, 2003)
- 2596: starbirth (Mar 6, 2003)
- 2597: rangerjustice (formerly warrior ranger) (Mar 6, 2003)
- 2598: Dragonfly. "A poet can survive everything but a misprint"-- Oscar Wilde (Mar 6, 2003)
- 2599: DA ; Simply Vicky: Don't get pithy with me! (Mar 6, 2003)
- 2600: J (Mar 6, 2003)
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