h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Think UCU are all striked out. Technically universities aren't public sector (I think because not all university income is directly from taxation, or something), and arrangements are separate.

The "turnout" issue in union ballots is something of a red herring. As Owen Jones has pointed out, the way to increase turnouts would be to allow workplace-based balloting. But that's not what the government wants - they're not remotely interested in turnout.

The idea that the "market" can somehow naturally and neutrally and fairly determine wages is nonsense. The "market" is not a neutral and independent and stable self-regulating system with similar laws to the laws of physics, but a human creation that needs regulation and intervention to enforce contracts, prevent unacceptable business practices, protect consumers, and create the conditions for fair competition. It's also hugely unequal in terms of power, and over recent years we've seen the rich and powerful "mark their own homework" and award themselves ever-larger sums.

Ultimately, pubic sector v private sector is a red herring. Plenty of very well paid and very poorly paid staff in both, and that's the real issue.

>> The idea that the "market" can somehow naturally and neutrally and fairly determine wages is nonsense. <<

Who said anything about fairness: as one of my former bosses used to say to his students: "life is tough" . But whether it be nonsense or not there is such a thing called a labour market.

slightly off topic:
Acquaintance travelled into Lincoln yesterday to sign on. Nobody there to sign on with = wasted fare of over £7.
Discussion in the café about not reading the papers or watching the news regularly turned up 3 people who didn't know the post had been privatised.

Dose a force people to work policy adopted by the DSS exist.

I have talked to several who were forced to take a job that paid less than benefits and in addition had to pay the rent for their flat in full.
It appears some employers are aware of this and as a result are paying less than they used to.

From the BBC

"Investors have delivered a BLOW to fashion house Burberry, by voting against the boss's pay package at the annual general meeting in London.

52% of shareholders voted not to support the remuneration report, in a rare stand against large salaries.

Christopher Bailey, who took over as chief executive in MAY 2014, has a package worth up to £10m a year."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28261916

it's obscene to even be talking about a package like that when some people aren't even making the minimum wage.

I'm with Otto here - it's not about representation at all, there are several ways that we could get more people participating in union ballots: via smartphone, internet, anonymous workplace ballots. But the Tories don't want that at all.

It's about perspective and being realistic. We live in a globalised "market" where billionaires are glamorised and accepted as the norm ... but I don't think it can be changed. With regard to Unions I wonder what the actual percentage of the workforce is part of a union. ...

I may be wrong but it seems that Germany does more to protect its workers than most.

what i really don't get is the anger towards the strikers. Yes it is inconvenient to have to arrange childcare etc etc, but it's going to be a lot more inconvenient when we're back to 19th century working terms (if not conditions)

As I mentioned to someone grumbling about strikes and unions elsewhere today: what are you doing this weekend? for your holidays?

Do you think that work as western civilisation knows it is changing, giving the workers an increasingly raw deal.

Labour is becoming cheap we could be in a second industrial revolution facing a dynamic change as vast as the first.

Who will throw the first sabot.

>> what i really don't get is the anger towards the strikers <<

Welcome to the mass society: divide and rule works. Thatcher said there is no such thing as society and she made it a reality (at least in the UK) - she cast the die - where even the opposition became a good tory (Blair) in order to become electable. The current coalition are continuing with the good work - creating internal markets within education. health, police ... and selling off bits and pieces.

" We live in a globalised "market" where billionaires are glamorised and accepted as the norm ... but I don't think it can be changed. With regard to Unions I wonder what the actual percentage of the workforce is part of a union. ..." [Stone Aart]

I expect that the percentage of workers who are unionized has been steadily declining for decades. I think I understand what you mean by glamorization of billionaires, but the way you've put it seems to imply that being a billionaire is a normal occurrence. Billionaires are very rare, though I would be happy to see that situation change. Let's see, I could own my own Caribbean island, vacation in the international space station, create my own musical theater company, and self-publish all those books and stories I've been writing for twenty years. If there were any money left over, I could pay people to read them

Quick question - who should be paid less than average? What are the criteria for selecting them?

trainees perhaps
the newest people who have been on the job only a few months?
people on short term contracts covering for maternity maybe?

I disagree with the contractors being paid less. They have other expenses not covered by the employer, as well as having to cover living expenses during the frequent unpaid breaks while they search for their next contract.

The idea of The Market (tm) sorting things out cannot be applied to the public sector. For one thing, The Market (tm) is not a self-balancing, self-regulating, neutral, reliable and predictable phenomenon like an electrical circuit, as has been pointed out. What is more, The Market (tm) only works when there actually is a market. When customers have the option to reject the product.

Only when you have the option not buy anything at your local electronics dealer does the question of "what is the best product at the best price" become relevant.

With fire departments, schools, police stations, hospitals and so on, you do not have that choice. If your house is on fire, letting it burn down is not an option. When you suffer from acute appendicitis, waiting for it to go away is not an option.

This gives anyone who is interested in obtaining a hospital or a fire station a rather interesting position. Whenever such services are to be privatized, there are terms and conditions any buyer has to meet. The buyer agrees, pays little for the latest acquisition, usually bags lots of subsidy, and then can start the real enterprise: earning money. By cutting costs. By lowering expenses. By effectively lowering wages. By effectively lowering the quality of their service. Basically by ruining that service. And they will get away with it - because there is no Market (tm). Because in the long run, the public will bail them out. Because in the long run, the public will cave in. Because the public will always need fire fighters, hospitals, police officers, dustmen.

tl/dr: Privatization of public sector services leads to blackmail-like behavior because the idea of "Market" is not applicable.

We live in a market with money the commodity.

Here we go again. Gimme, Gimme , Gimme.
The N.H.S. unions should say how the demands should be met within the N.H.S budget
I visited our local health centre today and got good service. However I waited in a nice bright room with overhead natural lighting. On top of this we had a lot little lights all over the place serving no purpose what so ever. This was just one waiting room in a host of other rooms with unnecessary lighting. Why don't those on strike make their protest by going round their work place switching off unnecessary lights. The N.H.S could save enough from their energy bill to more than pay for their demands.
It is none health service services where savings could be made.

Gimme, gimme gimme? WTH are you on?

How is expecting the 1% pay rise, the independent pay commission recommended, some sort of grasping behaviour. Some of our most important public *servants* on whom we all rely on for our health, the safety of our homes, the education of our children, wanting to stay still or not get poorer in real terms is the definition of a reasonable request.

I'll tell you how we afford it, maybe not cutting tax for the richest in society in a time of austerity and budget deficit for starters. And maybe closing some corporate tax loopholes, and actually employing some tax inspectors so that the powerful pay their fair share.

How about if means testing is the way forward (and I don't think it should be) then let's not apply it to everyone except wealthy, Tory voting pensioners. If it is good enough for struggling working mums, it should be good enough for wealthy grey citizens in million pound homes in Bournemouth....

And how about we tackle the real issues with the social secuirty bill be raising the minimum wage so the state doesn't have to subsidise businesses in poverty pay, and if we tackled the housing crisis we could save billions in housing benefit payments (which go mostly to working families) as well as boosting the economy and helping have a recovery that actually made a difference to ordinary people's bottom line.

If we did all that we'd easily be able to pay our nurses, teachers and firemen a decent lot and still probably cut the deficit.

On the other hand we can grumble about the enemy within, screw those who we rely on and let the most advantaged in society feast at the trough while everyone else stuggles.

Bravo to those fighting to protect the services they give our country, and bravo those prepared to fight so they can provide for their families.



FB

thanks for that FB - I was too shocked by someone having totally swallowed the Daily Mail/Tory line to write a reply.

from me too Ferretbadger. I used to not be political but the older I get and the more this society blames to poor, the more incensed I am becoming. Listening to some midwives calmly explaining what they are asking for last night, and the fact that they'd only walked out of routine clinics and so forth ( not the labour wards ) so their 'strike action' meant that the exact same level of care was being given as happened on every weekend. They're asking for their wages to keep pace with the cost of living. And our MPs are going to get a whopping 10% rise?

...don't get me started on tax cuts for those on higher tax bands.....