h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Ok, so the Andrew Mitchell saga continues.

Andrew Mitchell, chip whip (that's a senior government position, not some sort of sex worker ) aledgely called a policeman a 'pleb'. He denies this, but resigns anyway, after the police log is published he looks fairly stupid.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9564006/In-full-Police-log-detailing-Andrew-Mitchells-pleb-rant.html

So now it looks although the Police log may have been faked.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20780584

So *WHY* did he resign?

Hell, yeah. I would. In a wide range of scenarios I might do just that.

- If I was pig-headed enough.
- if I had a drug problem.
- if I was fed up doing my job anyway.
- if I was given an option to "jump or be pushed" by my employer.
- if I was fed up carrying incompetent colleagues.
- if incompetent colleagues were fed up with greater incompetence on my part.
- if I was wealthy enough not to really need to do my job.
- if I didn't really give a toss about how well or badly I did my job in the first place.
- if, after an event or series of events in which I had lost all desire to work with my colleagues.
- if the company I worked for was a recent merger with a lot of internal mistrust and infighting, and our customers had next to no confidence in us to do the job...Maybe I just want out.
Those are a few sets of circumstances in which someone might resign over something they hadn't done. I could probably make it a round hundred if you give me five minutes. But I can't speak for Mr Mitchell, of course.

I feel like I have missed some really important part of the puzzle here. The issue here is that it was leaked by a Copper pretending to be a member of the public (unacceptable) and that the report he leaked was remarkably similar to the Police log.

Now, I am not saying for a second that I will trust the filth on this. They are routinely lying sods who look after one another.

But....

Whilst one reading of what has been reported is that two officer colluded to lie about the whole shebang and it is a stitch up. Surely another, at least equally plausible, is that a copper with access to the Police log illigally and dishonestly leaked what had been legitimately written in blog having had access to said blog?

Surely?

Or have I missed some other crucial bit of evidence?

FB

Help me out here. I thought 'pleb' was a short
form of plebian - 'of the common people'.

I heard it used years ago by upper-classmen at
college in a disdainful and dismissive way when
addressing freshmen. It struck as one of those
typically juvenile expressions used by those with
an unjustified sense of power or superiority.

In this context it is hardly very offensive. It is
neither blasphemous nor obscene; not even a
bit scatological. It is actually no more offensive
than 'newbie' or 'frosh' or 'peasant'.

Anyone taking offense simply confirms their own
lack of sophistication and thin skin.

So what is the problem?


~jwf~

Perhaps a more acceptable term would have been 'hoi polloi'

Yes that sounds dirtier than it really is.
The mob, the rabble...
I personally prefer 'peons' because it suggests
we can pee on them.

~jwf~

"It is actually no more offensive
than 'newbie' or 'frosh' or 'peasant'."

The last of those is the most relevant here. It has been interpreted as reflecting a sense of superiority on the part of a government minister - and, by extension, his whole government/party. That's what the minister would originally have been said to have done wrong: "bringing the party/government into disrepute." Also, in terms of sheer offensiveness, he is actually said to have called the officer something which rhymes with a "plucking pleb", which I think fulfils your criteria.
That was the controversy as it stood before the most recent revelations. Now, I have to admit that I'm rather confused too.

yeah, I saw all that plucking and clucking in the text
but no one had referred to that - it was pleb they kept
saying was the offense. Nobody quoted the profanity.

And now, thanks to your perspective I can see how
an elected politician might be guilty of bringing the
government into disrepute by referring to a civil servant
as a paysant, someone to peon.

So the issue is not one of profanity but hubris. Or rather
the non-PC act of displaying hubris in a public place while
under the influence of pride and power.

If I'd done that I'd probably resign too. More likely I'd
have resigned before it came to that.


~jwf~

Pleb, hoi polloi ... it can be so difficult choosing the right term:

A54477912

FB, I think the point that has emerged over the last few days is that the leaked log is similar, but not exactly the same, as the offical log. It seems the leaked log was slightly "sexed up", for want of a better term, to paint as bad a picture of Mr Mitchell as possible.

Which therefore raises the concern that the officer who leaked the fake log was intentionally trying to besmerch a cabinet minister. We don't yet know their reasons for doing so.


Geggs

You've also got to remember that Andrew Mitchell was a very senior member of a government who was, at that very instant, in a fight with the police over budgets and manning levels...

The whole thing could well have been triggered by a copper thinking 'this guy's about to do me out of a job and now he's swearing at me for doing it properly? Ok, now he's in for it!'

The whole thing is becoming increasingly bizarre, and I suspect there's more to come out. There was a comment in the Graun the other day to the effect that Mitchell is apparently widely disliked, and that all this has got to be understood in that context.

Didn't Mitchell admit to swearing at police, but denied using the word 'pleb'? And if it turns out that he did swear but didn't use the P word, might that not still be a resigning issue? I'm not sure, and I have to keep checking my intuitions on this by imagining that it was a Labour/Green MP rather than a Tory.

I guess the argument is that swearing at Plod is an arrestable offence, and that we can't have one rule for them and one for us. But equally, I wouldn't want to take away the ability of Plod to use discretion when appropriate. If their main job is to guard the gates of Downing Street, it's probably not the best idea to get distracted by arresting and booking an MP for swearing.

It's also worth noting that Mitchell was Chief Whip, a role which is basically a political enforcer charged with maintaining party discipline. A kind of head prefect/licensed bully role. And he's probably shown himself entirely suited for the role. If he was Justice Minister, or Education Minister, it would be different matter....

I think the word 'pleb' was thought of in some quarters as particularly damaging/offensive given the, er, somewhat aristocrat-heavy nature of the Tory party. It might be thought (correctly) to be indicative of their attitude to ordinary people in general. But it's an odd insult to invent, if indeed it was invented....

It's all gone a bit 'Thick of It'....

"In this context it is hardly very offensive. It is
neither blasphemous nor obscene; not even a
bit scatological. It is actually no more offensive
than 'newbie' or 'frosh' or 'peasant'. So what is the problem?"

In British English, 'pleb/plebeian' needs no qualifier to carry a rather more pejorative message than merely 'common' or 'raw'. Wiki has it:

"In British, Irish, Australian, New Zealand and South African English the back-formation pleb, along with the more recently derived adjectival form plebby,[2] is used as a derogatory term for someone considered unsophisticated or uncultured.[3] In September 2012, UK Conservative Party Chief Whip Andrew Mitchell was reported using the word in a tirade directed at police officers in Downing Street. He disputed the accusation,[4] but intense media pressure forced him to offer his resignation on 20 October 2012."

the point as i see it is that he insulted a police officer
he wont tell us what he thinks he said so it could be worse than pleb
he insulted an officer and resigned what he actually said is neither here nor there as far as I am concerned, he's lucky he didn't get cuffed and chucked in a car for comic effect

Hardly looks like a major incident tbh

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/video/2012/dec/19/pleb-cctv-andrew-mitchell-downing-street-video

As for "should he resign", this whole affair is undoubtedly politically motivated so whatever he did or didn't say, Mitchell has shown bad political judgement and for that reason can't really continue in a role where he is required to enforce the party will over the political judgements of individual MPs

Another lesson from this that the police should take on board is that they possibly should have arrested Mitchell for using abusive language at a police officer - that way all of this stuff would not have happened and the law would have taken it's course.

>> In British English, 'pleb/plebeian' needs no qualifier to carry
a rather more pejorative message than merely 'common' or 'raw'. <<

Hmm.. maybe he shoulda called him a minion.
Y'dont hear minions much nowadays.
Lovely word minion.
Queen Victoria had no problem calling us minions.
I live in the minion of Canada.
http://www.atlasofbritempire.com/Dominions.html

~jwf~

Did someone say minions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuzyODgWRp4


Geggs

If I called anyone here a pleb I don't think that any of us would bat an eyelid.

However, if I was King of the Internet and had a certain degree of authority over you lot and referred to you as plebs, the tone would be rather different.

And my mates would obviously believe and support me (even if they also thought you were all plebs).

And the nasty party do have a certain image problem.

PP.