h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I heard there was a time when zero didn't exist. Technically speaking, was zero (0) invented or discovered?

Think it depends on the counting system, and it was probably because a concept of something from nothing would be useful.

I'd say invented, on the basis that the whole of mathematics was invented. Though it is a useful way of describing the things that we do discover.


Geggs

Zero as a state (i.e. there is nothing there) was already known by the time zero as a mathematical concept was invented in the Middle East.

I believe that early counting and arithmetic systems did without zero altogether, causing all manner of obvious problems. I don't think that the Romans used a zero in their maths system, for example. I also believe it was the Arabs who first came up with the concept of the zero, although they used a dot instead of the circle we use now. I think that the circle as a representation of 'nothing' as we know it evolved later, presumably as a way of differentiating it from the decimal point.

I wouldn't take any of the above as gospel, though, as it is remembered from a TV programme I saw years ago on the subject.

i thought the Maya first used the zero

India to be precise - somewhere between the first and fifth centuries A.D

All numbers are an invention of the human brain.

Zero was invented independently in India (from where it spread to Europe) and in Meso America (the Maya). These two inventions probably happened around the same time.

There is also some evidence that the concept of zero was known to the Ancient Greeks, but it was not a widespread concept that caught on.

Zero does not exist.

Actually I know Zero, and he would say that the number 0 only ensures that you have a page 10 between 9 and 11 when you read the paper.

ah finally gnomon (the mountain of knowledge) arrives with the definitive answer

If it didn't then we'd just have to have a page X between IX and XI in the paper.

Acorrding to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_%28number%29

The first evidence of zero being used, is by the Babylonians

As to whether it was discovered or invented. When i'd say they defined the existance of nothing (if nothing can exist?) as zero, rather than creating it. (not sure if that make sense)

Thankx Mr. Dreadful, more proof that zero does not, in fact, exist.

That's not necessarily true. There is a big difference between the concept of 'nothing' and an empty column in our base 10 arithmetical system.

'Nothing' is a void, a vacuum and an absence of all things.

'Zero' is a mathmatical device used to denote an absence of a figure in any given number grouping, be it units, tens, hundreds, thousands etc. It's an accounting device, essentially, not a philosophical concept.

Regardless of whether it was invented or discovered, I would love to be the founder trying to explain it to his contemporaries...

"I've discovered a new number. Well, it's sort of a number...it's more of a concept. Well, it's nothing, really. I've discovered nothing. What are you all laughing about?"

B

The Mayans even numbered the days of the week and the days of the month starting at zero! The symbol for zero was a shell, while the symbol for 1 appears to have been a cocoa bean. Cocoa beans were used as currency.

I'll raise you three Toblerones and a Wispa.

That means that to the Mayas, hot chocolate would have the profits from a bank raid.

Up to the discovery of non-Euclidean geometry, mathematicians generally believed that there was a Platonic "mathematical universe" which existed independently of our own, in which everything was perfect, lines were straight and numbers exact. People who went along with this view would have considered that zero already existed in the mathematical world and that all the mathematicians were doing was discovering it.

THe discovery of non-Euclidean geometry shattered that belief. ALl of a sudden, there were alternative ways of describing the world, each making sense and being consistent with the observed world, but conflicting with each other. No longer could it be said that there is a geometrical world "out there" of which ours is a poor shadow. Geometry and by inference the whole of mathematics is now perceived to be an artificial construct in our heads, so we now consider that zero was invented, not discovered.

It raises the interesting question, if mathematics is just something we invented, how come it is so spectacularly good at making predictions about the real world?