h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Indeed, not one of the more common hazards to watch for in Ireland!

I wonder is it in the cities they say gorse?

I used to spend holidays on my uncle's farm in Cavan and one evening near Easter we always went out burning whins.

Munster was the stronghold of the Wran Boys, who sang (still do?)

"The wran, the wran, the king of all birds
St Stephen's Day was caught in the furze
Although he is little his honour is great
Jump up me boys and give us a treat . . .
Up with the kettle and down with the pan
And give us a penny to bury the wran"

This version I dredged from memory agrees well with Gnomon's in A1111285

St Stephen's Day (26th of December) was the only day of the year a bodhrán was ever struck, before the mid-1960s. To take out a bodhrán any other day of the year would have been like wearing swimming togs to work, complete with bucket and spade.

Now that you mention the song, Recumbent, I realise I have indeed heard "furze" before. I've never heard that about the bodhrán though.

I have to note my gratitude to Edward for the reference to the 03 Reith lectures made in an earlier discussion. Fascinating stuff about the make up of our brains, and the way parts get cross-wired. It's made me wonder if I've got some neuron criss-crossing between sentence-making and hand-motion segments (which he says are right next to eachother) because I simply can't talk with windmilling my arms around while I talk - Andy Marr syndrome perhaps?

But I think you were particularly refering to the part where Ramachandran offered a hypothesis for language origins, which I found full of ridiculous ideas. I got worried when he started with that thought experiment about 'kiki' and 'booba': which do you think would refer to a blobby amoeba like animal, and which to the one with a sharp, jagged outline. Most think 'kiki' sharp, 'booba' round, from he suggests our capacity to perceive metaphors, or similar attributes in different kinds of things like the sharpness of cheese, is one of the primary capacities enabling our early ancestors to develop language.

That strikes me as a rather juvenile error. I seem to recall I felt in my tender years that there was somehow something piggy about the word 'pig', and 'slow' takes ages to say and 'fast' feels quick in itself, but what of slick, or throw. The speaker actually suggests saying "teeny weeny" mimics the object described. Does it? The long vowels sounds and the assonance might in some way suggest length and repetition but I see nothing teeny weeny about it. I once tested this kind of stuff on foreign speakers, and they'd guess wildly different things. Words are arbitrary. They are symbols of their meaning determined by tradition, not representations like photos, which share certain attributes (like colour and line) with their reference.

I think he and kids make the mistake because our language becomes so instinctive. Eg. some of us will say 'och' and feel our emotion expressed and relieved in saying it and therefore associate the word itself to the emotion. And again it's a very phonocentric theory, priveleging speech as having some original unity with consciousness, with the implication writing is secondary.

I was surprised by such foolishness having learnt so much from his other arguments. And his lectures are certainly far more interesting than this years Reith Lectures.

anax

Here's a test. there are matching words in Irish pronounced Hoo-us and Hee-us, and corresponding ones pronounced Oo-sul and Ee-shall. One pair means "high" and the other pair means "low"; the longer words of the pairs refer to nobility and humility. So which are Oo and which are Ee?

My guess is (and it is a guess) Oo is low and Ee is high. Am I right?

Anyone else?

I have to say I really can't tell. Neither seem to suggest one meaning more than the other to me.

I'll go for the 'ee' sound meaning high.

For no particular reason though

Well thank you Adelaide an Pedro for taking part. The correct answer is:

Thuas (pron. Hoo-us): up high
Thíos (pron. Hee-us): down low

Uasal: worthy, noble
Íseal: humble, lowly

There is some onomatopoeia discernible, but it goes along with the ancient Greek measures rather than modern standard. Apparently in ancient Greek terms a 'high' note was one produced by a large instrument like a double bass, and a 'low' note was produced by a small instrument like a whistle. Makes sense if you thing of how *tall* the instrument is; but it's the reverse of our present norms.

So if you think of Oo as a booming sound produced by a large tuba or bass drum and Ee as a tiny squeak out of a lowly mouse, you get the high and pompous from Oo and the teeny weeny from Ee.

Irish also has a pleasing distinction between two words for 'up' and two words for 'down'

Suas: upwards overhead
Anuas: down from a height
Síos: downwards beneath
Aníos: up from below

I'd go one further and say Irish has three words for up and three words for down:

Suas: upwards
Thuas: up
Anuas: from up (down from a height)
Síos: downwards
Thíos: down
Aníos: from down (up from below)

And the same applies to each of the four points of the compass:

Siar: towards the East
Thiar: In the East
Aniar: from the East

etc.

That'll be the west Gno

Sorry. You're right. I get confused because Inis Thiar (West Island) is the Eastmost island of the Aran islands.

How good are you two at Irish? Do you speak it fluently?

I'm atrocious at Irish, having studied it for 12 years at school.

More than me then Gnomon. I know a few stock phrases and the odd word I've just picked up here and there, but that's as far as it goes. In all, maybe 60 words or so!

I won a prize in Irish once but I don't speak it at all; I can just about follow the news in Irish. In the sixties it was taught like Latin and French, to be written and read, not spoken.

Thanks for that explanation, Recumbentman. Very interesting!