h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Yes, according to the rules of English pronunciation, "skeptics" is more correct, since a "c" followed by an "e" should be a soft c sound, as in "cell" or "scepter." The Americans cleaned up all sorts of problems with the English language when they wrote their first dictionary. Anyone who prefers traditionally accepted spellings are welcome to them, as they are still acceptable usages in a large part of the world. Anyone who argues against the "sceptic" spelling can do so on the basis of a lack of technical merit. But anyone arguing against the "skeptic" spelling can only argue from a position of mindless slavery to tradition and bigotry."

I read this in another thread, I won't say which or who posted it, and it had me wonering how many people share this view.

Context is everything when it comes to spelling. What's being written, who for, and in what context. H2G2 is a British site, therefore British English spelling is used for the edited guide.

I suspect the claim that

'The Americans cleaned up all sorts of problems with the English language when they wrote their first dictionary'

is false. Spelling was much less standardised in the past and people used to be much less fussy about spelling than they are now. I suspect that the truth of the matter is that American-English and British-English just standardised in different ways. If there really had been an 'American' attempt to 'clean up' the English language, surely they would have changed the spellling of 'knight' and 'knowledge' and so on, rather than wasting time on 'color' and 'gray'.

I'm open to correction on this point though...

"the rules of English pronunciation" ... as oxymoronic a statement as ever existed! English is a glorious and positively heady mixture of any number of languages, accents and dialects, each of which has brought something else to the party.

The simplest rule to follow is there are no rules ... just think of how many homonyms and homophones there are and then compare to our nearest competitor ... it all adds colour to this glorious language of ours.

It's pretty difficult to argue a point about spelling of English based on pronunciation; think about the words: cough, though, through, bough, chough (a type of bird, pronounced chuff), thought.

Can't forget dough, surely

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Bernard Shaw and 'ghoti' yet...

Well I wasn't logged on earlier.



Noggin

Fairy nuff!

Webster-Merrian were rich, and they showed what any amount of money can get you in America. When they made it against the law to spell the British-English way. They were appealing to the fact that in America (and I'm not trying to be offensive here) there were a lot of uneducated folk, so they were trying to simplify English. By dropping 'u's and 's's and adding 'z's to where ever seemed appropiate. Spelling was made easy for the Americans. A lot of which in those days were immigrants from Eastern Europe, Ireland and lower-class Europeans and China.

>> The Americans cleaned up all sorts of problems with the English language when they wrote their first dictionary'<<

There is probably an element of truth in that as a lot of American spellings are closer the French original than the British spelling.

Donald

It's interesting to see people's thoughts. My own thought is that english isn't a science but an art.

I take umbrage with the word 'problems' when it comes to English.

English is an organic language, growing, absorbing, learning, and even in it's more wild and unruly youth, wholeheartedly stealing bits from other languages: French, German, Latin, Greek, Hindi, Icelandic, Esperanto, Clingon ...

Much like we human folk, there are some historical leftovers that don't make sense (like the appendix) but are still there. Personally I'd rather they were there than we had a sterile, culture free language.

When you meet someone you ask them no end of questions with regard to background. If someone just rocked up with no history and no background you'd be as suspicious as a untrusting person at a liars convention ...

just my tuppence worth, but then being an English teacher and lover of this language of ours it may be slightly biassed - love is blind after all.

I think that the person who said that, had failed to realise that there are many 'c' words where the 'c' is pronounced as a 'k' sound... Coin, Columbia, monocoque, etc... Interestingly, the Americans called an electrocardiogram an EKG, because I am presuming, they find ECG difficult to say, or mix it up with EEG...

Right on Ekki. I don't think people realise just how much of a bastard English is and like any bastard, anyone can claim it as their own.

Donald

Re: ghoti. The Klingon word for fish is . This is just one of many, many jokes concealed within the vocabulary.

"the Americans called an electrocardiogram an EKG, because I am presuming, they find ECG difficult to say, or mix it up with EEG"

You presume, in the first instance, incorrectly. Quelle surprise.

"EKG" is, on one level, a linguistic holdover from German. A similar situation exists in geology, where the boundary between Cretaceous and Tertiary strata is known - even in the English speaking world - as the K/T boundary, because the German word for Cretaceous is spelled with a K. There are many such holdovers in the scientific world, because Germany had a preeminent position until the early 20th century. Indeed, many of the early standard chemistry journals were exclusively in German, not English. Nowadays, English is the standard international language of scientific publication, but it was not always so.

"EKG" is also, as you say, much less likely to get mixed up with "EEG", which is rather important. For similar reasons no soldier ever refers to the digit 0 as "oh" or "nought", but always as "zero", because the latter reduces the possibility for error when speaking to someone, either in person or over a radio.

I'm fascinated by this:

The original quote: "since a "c" followed by an "e" should be a soft c sound"

Adelaide/Della/Adele/Debbie/Annie's response: "there are many 'c' words where the 'c' is pronounced as a 'k' sound... Coin, Columbia, monocoque"

Yes. Three excellent examples of a "c" followed by an "e".

Um...

Or not.

I'm curious. Are you doing it on purpose, or are you just not paying any attention at all?

H.

<>

Oh, as Mork said, "ark, humo(ur..." How do *you* pronounce cephalopod?

see-fal-o-pod

The only ce-word I can think of that's pronounced with a k-sound is Celtic.


Ep.

(And I don't mean the football team, I know that's pronounced differently.)

I was always taught to pronounce it Ke-f-alopod... also, to say en-keph-alo-gram etc... Maybe I just had old-fashioned parents..

It originates from the Greek kephalos, which the Greeks would pronounce with a k-sound, but in English it's pronounced with an s-sound.