h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Dunno if anyone else saw the traffic cops programme on tely (england) the other night but it had an interesting bit on it.
An obviously-tee'd-off-with-beaurocracy traffic copper had stopped two guys in a car. As part of the stop and tickets (driver for no seatbelt, no footware and something else, passenger got a 30quid ticket for no seatbelt) he had to ask them to choose their ethnic/cultural background 'for home office stats'.

Both guys were not white british. However, both chose white british for the form which the officer had to then mark down. The driver then changed his to caribbean.

Which kinda makes you think that home office stats on ethnic breakdown of arrests and stops by the police is junk really. Especially as the guy wo stopped them is asking the person for this info, giving them a little bit of power which they will then inevitably abuse in an effort to get back at 'the system'.

Um. Ca't think of a question, but if you wish to comment, go ahead I was going to just post this to an appropriate thread, but couldn't find one!

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I didn't know you could be done for that. Is this to help reduce people's carbon footprint?

I saw that programme too, and it made me wonder exactly the same thing . But then again, the policeman can't really stand there and tell them they're not choosing the correct origin without causing some sort of outcry, really. Even if the people he was dealing with were taking the pee.

Have you ever tried driving barefoot? Horrible. I tried once (well I had socks on) and I won't be repeating the attempt.
The car did not move by the way, simply attempting to use the clutch barefoot was enough to put me off.

I did, once, when it was very hot, and I didn't even have socks on - I'd been wearing sandals, which had rubbed and were incredibly uncomfortable, so it seemed easier to take them off.

The worst thing about it was how odd the pedals felt, compared to driving with shoes.

Exactly.
And if you need to brake hard and suddenly, have you really got the power and same feel as you do with shoes on (which unless you're mad, you're much more used to)?

I think all stats should be accepted cautiously. Especially ones where there is room for a lot of vaguery in the answers.

I have to collect ethnic monitoring information for the RFU when Im coaching two bothers managed to give me three differnt answers the other day each on was plausible and if you take the definitions at face value each and every one they gave was actually valid.

What gets up my nose is that monitoring forms arent standardised. Some lump all the INdian subcontinenet together and some separate Bangaladesh and Pakistan. Some recognise Irsish as an ethnic group while on some forms it would be clasified as "white European - other" as opposed to "White British".

What gets me irrate (well it would if I let such things get to me but it would really mess with my inner chill if I did) is that so many people giving the answers or filling in the forms just make it up. They say the least difficult answer to give or one that suits their mood or one that they made up after because they couldnt be arsed filling in th form or asking the questions. Then there is the itme wasted by people who do things, youth work, coaching, health care, upholding the law etc...etc... who have to fill in these forms then have them deciphere and counted up by someone else.

Why not just send the statistcians out to do random checks and look in the cells, go round wiht a midwife, sit in the corner and do the auditing of service access and use by different minorities that way?

??? I ALWAYS drive barefoot, I can feel the pedals better, no risk of wet shoe soles slipping off the brake or clutch. Much prefer it to heels or trainers. (And yes, I can emergency stop in barefeet)

Wouldn't want to drive in flip flops though!

I've driven in barefeet, but I did know you could get done for it. Fortunately unless you're doing something else to get stopped for it's rather hard for a copper to look at your feet as you're driving along.

Britons seems to be obsessed with stereotyping people and putting labels on everyone.

I recently applied for a job within the NHS and was asked questions about ethnicity, religious beliefs, sexual preferences and other irrelevant questions. I refused to answer them.

Is it more important to have a certain percentage of bisexual catholic irish men or straight buddhist asian women than a person who actually is qualified and competent for the position?

Here in the Icy North an employer would get at least fined for asking those questions. Asking about age and gender is on the verge of being unacceptable.

No you're missing the point very slightly while they are asking *you* for that information in the vast amjority of cases they arent interested in your background and preferences in regards to the job itself. What some employers and more usually the CRE are interested in is that they get as wide and diverse workforce as available. Its valuable to have the experiences of a wide ranging group of employees for the organisation and its important socially that we dont slide back to the times where it was an unwritten rule that nearly all employers looked at the applicants heritage and lifestyle before they looked at their skills and suitability. Ethnic and other monitoring alows companies and the CRE to see where this might be and where it isnt happening.

one love

We're actually discussing legislation about anonymisation of applications to avoid biasing when employing someone.

You will do your application "as usual" but your name, age, gender etc will not be known to employer until it's time for the interview. OK there are "flaws". For instance your language skills may give a hint of your background.

But still there is a better chance that your actual skills will be evaluated, and not your age etc.

My experience of "monitoring systems" like yours is that they only create political correctness and not whatever justice they were supposed to.

As an NHS pen pusher, I can assure you that your answers will not have any effect on your application. Because the NHS is moving towards a national staff database (ESR- Electronic Staff Record), it is now asking applicants for information that it would previously have asked employees once they had joined. Applicants' records are now drawn through the computer system from application to appointment (to minimalise input of information.)

As far as ethnic origin is concerned, we use letter codes that include the options 'unknown', 'other' and 'did not wish to state'. It is up to the applicant/employee how much detail he or she wishes to give. I believ the same applies to religion, sexuality &c.

As far as stats go, take them with a pinch of salt. For example, when members of the government say how many extra nurses they have employed over the last ten years, what do they actually mean?

At the hospital where I work, we employ about 1500 nurses but their aggregate full time equivalent is nearer 1100. Think of it this way, if a ward needs one nurse to work 38 hours a week, it could employ one nurse for 38 hours or two nurses for 19 hours each. Which would the government rather tell you?

"We have doubled the number of nurses on the ward." Headcount = 2, FTE = the same.

Makes you wonder- well I hope it does

I think I should have said sexual orientation rather than sexuality

I always refuse the answer the questions about where I'm from. It's got nothing to do with anything I'm ever answering so they can bog off. An old friend of mine used to take her high heels off and drive barefoot, I can't believe how uncomfortable it is, and if you have to do an emergency stop, ouch!

I drive in bare feet quite often.... arrggghhh.... I didn't know I was breaking any rules

yep, driving without footwear is one of those old rules that many seem to not know about.

There's quite a few don;t seem to know you get a fixed penalty fine for being a passenger and not wearing a seatbelt.

""Britons seems to be obsessed with stereotyping people and putting labels on everyone.

I recently applied for a job within the NHS and was asked questions about ethnicity, religious beliefs, sexual preferences and other irrelevant questions. I refused to answer them.""

Isn't that just HR staff making jobs for themselves? Collect data so they can spend hours discussing it / reporting it (to themselves, probably).