h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm not religious but this just intrigued me. There is an argument by some guy whose name I forget that says you should believe in God for the following reasons:
1: If you do and he doesen't it's no real loss.
2: If you don't who cares.
3: I you do and he does then wow on both accounts.
4: If he does and you don't, well he is going to be mighty peaved and send you to hell.

I'm not sure whether to agree or not just wanted to know what you think before I decide.

I think it was Rene Descartes

I disagree with that. Belief in god requires some devotion and sacrifice on the part of the believer. The main down side to believing in god is having to believe in a greater power who has the ability to control you and decide your future. I don't know about you but I am not willing to give up control of my own destiny. Nor am I willing to change my values in order to believe in a greater power

Just like everyone else you look to some other people to tell you what you should believe in. If you ask me, religion is just some comfort thing for people so they think they have the answers when no one really does. I will not become like every other person, and relying on others to guide you is really what religion is all about. Do you want to rely on yourself or on others?

"Should" believe? Do you want to live in fear... of what He/She might do if you don't believe?

On the other hand, as a person who is interested in 'Life, the Universe and Everything', I find myself compelled to listen to what God has to say... in botany, biology, atronomy, scripture, everywere... because what I find there seems so creative, intricate, humorous, powerful.

I think you "should" take any opportunity LISTEN to God, do what you can to hear him. Then, if you like what you hear, by all means do believe!

Hey Apollo

The argument you quote is from Blaise Pascal, the great French mathematic, astronomer, theologist and many other jobs.

If you want my opinion on this argument, here it is:

1. It is perfectly logical, you can't disprove it.
2. Nevertheless, it didn't make me believe in God for this reason: If you substitute the word God, it can make you believe in Buddha, Allah, Bill Gates, the Big White Chocobo or the almighty refrigerator with exactly the same logic.
3. As a devout reader of Douglas Adams, I know for sure that God doesn't exist (any more?) because the Babel Fish does .
4. I also know, again by being a devout reader of Douglas Adams, of the phrase "We apologize for the inconvenience" . It really says it all!

See ya,

PP

"I talk to God, but the sky is empty!"

Before you decide to believe (or not believe) in God, surely you should do some research. I would suggest that instead of researching Blaise Pascal or Douglas Adams you simply read the Bible. It is near enough the story of our civilization, where we got our laws, our governments, our ethics. Start with the New Testament in a modern translation, the New International Version, for example.

If only life were that simple.

Please remember that the Bible was written by humans and not directly by god.
Within H2G2 I have come across a wide spectrum of beliefs, if you look through the forums you will find wiccans, christians, mormans, atheists and many others.

I think that belief is a personal matter and each of us has to make up our own minds, which is not something easy to do.

As for myself
I have come to the conclusion, some years ago and after considerable thought, that I do not belive in God(s), and that there is no after life.

I think that, God(s) do provide a great many people with a useful container for all the things which we don't understand or can't face, and as such are comforting to those who do belive in them.

You can't disprove it because it doesn't really prove anything. Pascal just gave good reason to believe. It's an interesting arguement, and fairly unique for it's time, but not exactly proof.
I've read a few of God's books and it seems to me that he would want us to believe in him just because it was the safest bet. He'd prolly try and guilt us into belief. You know, he gives us his son to take care of and we brake him so now we have to kiss his ass and believe.

Little Bunny Foo Foo

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
--J.J. Hahn

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**Jesus is coming, everyone look busy!**
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One could very well believe in God, alltough not nesecerily in the traditional interptiation. Make your one God and believe in it. If God the exists and tells you at the gate that you did not believe you know that is not true. This should grant you access, right.

I think Apollo's original argument was first proposed by a guy called Pascal. I and my friends used to discuss that sort of thing at length and we looked at all the 'standard' arguments for God's existence. And we decided that they're not there to persuade non-believers they're wrong, but to reassure believers that they're right. Belief isn't rational that way, you can't persuade yourself to believe in something without any proof at all. If you're going to believe (or disbelieve) in God then it's something you've no conscious control over. Either you do or you don't. (It's a bit like falling in love.) Certainly it's not rational, but then again religion isn't.

BECAUSE I AM GOD HAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAah erm.... uh.......

Uh okay anyway i have the perfect lyrics to illustrate my feelings on god.
"Your god is dead, and no one cares, if there is a hell, I'll see you there." -NIN

Oh and for the record, I am not really god at all. I am satan trapped in a seventeen year old girl's body. Buh huh huh huh huh huh...

If you don't believe in God what do you think conscience is?
I don't mean feeling guilty for hitting someone or something about harming your race, but why is it you feel guilty for not owning up to something small which has harmed no one else and that no one else could find out?
This is in no way an admission of guilt for any crime.

The only problem with believing in a god is that you've got so many to choose from. And they all have a reputation of getting pretty darn pissed off if your allegiance falls with one of the other big kahunas. Plus, there are usually a ton of really bizarre rules you'll need to abide by to appease them. The whole no sex thing kinda ruined it for me, personally.

So be careful out there!

Oooooh, I know this one! Guilt (and it's sister emotion, shame) is a trait we evolved in order to protect us from doing things that piss off the other humans in our social circle. We learned early on (as a species) that it we needed to keep our co-habitors happy with us, because we depended on them to stal alive alive on this harsh planet. If we did something that made them mad they tended to stop sharing their food, shelter, sex, etc. with us. Guilt gives us a way of recognizing when we are in danger of getting on people's bad side. So even if we do happen to commit some sort of offensive act, we can realize it and apologise. And an apology, if accepted, is likely to get you back in on the food, sex, shelter that is so important to survival.

So there's no need to use some form of all powerful creature to explain guilt. It's simply a very useful trait for a species to have. So the probability that it would appear in such a social creature as humans. If you do a little checking, you'll discover that shame and guilt are common traits found in most of the larger brained, social species.

If you are at all interested, I HIGHLY recommend an excelent book called Dark Nature: a history of evil, by Lyall Watson. It's brilliant, and entertaining too.

Before believing in the christian god you should however also read the
old testament, which makes it obvious that this god promotes racism,
sexism and genocide, and not just once but as a rule. Hopefully you
will then not believe in god. Or at the very least, select another
one.

I can't remember any such feeling. Maybe that's because I haven't
believed in any god since I was 3?
Sometimes I get the feeling that I've really wasted a day because I
haven't done anything good or interesting, maybe that's what you mean.
But this doesn't really make me feel bad, it's rather the realisation
that I already feel bad (or worse than I could).

May I be so bold as to suggest you pop along to the following: www.secularism.org.uk