h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I also think Ben Elton is now too old, too rich and too smug to do stand up anymore!

Where would he be with out the Tory party?+

Oooooh, now that struck a few nerves

I hate to say it but I'd suspect there are more than a few closet thatcherites out there still... just because it's become fashionable to slag her off (and lets face it, we've probably all seen people who weren't even born when she was in power slagging her off on this site).

You want a alternative KerrAvon?

They should turn the whole process on its head. Start off by asking the members of the party who they want as leader. And go for it.

Well, like mark I have no respect for Ben Elton anymore and also remember Heath's three day week and the fuel strikes.

I also remember Thatcher's reign of terror particularly vividly as i spent three years of it watching what was one of the industrial heartlands of the country (the coal mining and ship building north east) turned into a wasteland where Sunderland lost 30,000 jobs in three years.

*- without any party loyalties you get to sit there and take the piss constantly without suggesting an alternative *

I rather thought I had nailed my colours very firmly to the mast.

Not you, fool- Blues!

Blues- and now they all answer 'phones. Only for the next few months though, 'cause then all the jobs go to India.

I suspect it's a jibe at me.

I'll vote for anybody that I feel is worthy of my respect. At the moment that isn't any of the self serving, venal, mealy-mouthed b*st*rds at Westminster. They don't deserve my respect, my vote, my loyalty, or even, frankly, the tip of my boot.

Then spoil your ballot paper in 18 months- don't just sit at home, otherwise you're lumped in with the lazy gits that can't be arsed.

I seriously think that by electing him (as now seems to be the case) the tory party are signing away any dwindling support they may have in the north of the country.

And there is one other point... what the tories need to do for the next 18 months/2 years is to provide an _opposition_ party...

Meaning they've got to put someone forward who can stand up in parliament and crucify TB every time he opens his mouth (shouldn't be difficult for Howard)... that means they've got to offer alternatives and I'd suspect that quite a large percentage of the population is fed up with the fact that there has been so little apparent difference between labour and conservative policies and attitudes (which hasn't been helped of course by the fact that no two tory politicians have been able to agree on just what are their policies over the last ten years!)

Maybe the Conservative have to change to get back into power... it worked for Labour didn't it?

Yes it did work for "new Labour" but I wonder how much of it was influenced by "spin doctors" and we all know about them don't we.

The clip of Howard at the ballot box that is being used by BBC world atm is awful, he is at his most creepy and slimy. Don't let any children watch, they'll have nightmares.

What I'd like to know is - how do grass-roots members of the Tory party feel about having no say at all in their new leader?

I'd be stunningly upset if my party sacked the people's choice then sat, huddled in darkened rooms, privately deciding the single candidate they were going to foist on the rest of the party. So much for democracy - MH will probably have been chosen by a cabal of 10 or 20 people.

This is my point, learn , adapt, rethink.
I still think that TB has a decent socialist agenda underneath all that spin.
He wants equality and a fair chance for all, but it is how you achieve that is the trick. The old labour party would never have been able to deliver that and neither will a right wing Tory party.
This is one of the reasons the country muddles through, the political pendulum swings right and left but the average is kind of in the middle.

The Tory's of the 80's shifted the average to the right and to a certain extent IDS etc etc were correcting this.
Howard takes us back rightward.

Yes, he will be a good performer in the Commons, but so was Powell, Mosely on one side, Bevan, Benn etc on the other. But ultimately will be unsuccessfull and after a third defeat the even more radical changes will be needed.

Hmm, wouldn't surprise me if they 'forced' a party wide election by proposing a second candidate even if all the other possibles drop out... someone completely incompetent who doesn't actually stand a chance of winning, just to keep the members happy...

you can even request a postal ballot spoil that and send it back. Then you cost the government some money in the process as well if you really want to.

Childern having nightmares, cabals in darken rooms, Dracula, darkeness, all words used in this thread so far when discussing the porspective leader of the opposition.


Ah chilling thought......

The Tories should do the same thing as Labour did and Go "New Tory" and they can go further to the left because at the minute it seems to me that labour is just about as right winged as the tories are. Mind you this would really screw things up...no....correct that, they already are

As Mr Burns says " Excellent "

Apparently there is a large groundswell of furious anger from the grassroots Tories.

Gaah. I'm conflicted. On the one hand, I like seeing the Tory party tearing itself to shreds, because a) it's funny and b) it's self inflicted and no less than they deserve if they insist on this constant blood-letting.

On the other hand, when we desperately need a credible opposition, they're not there. Too busy back stabbing to do any real damage to a government with some major holes. One party democracy is not what this country needs right now, but the Tories are just slipping into the abyss.

What to do? Kerravon for PM?