h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I've recently been posting about how the Central London Congestion Charge will effect the Private Hire trade in London

F86892?thread=229068
F85548?thread=229067
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2.cgi?thread=%3Cmod.1039399416-6871.7%40forum2.thdo.bbc.co.uk%3E&find=%3Cmod.1039399416-6871.7%40forum2.thdo.bbc.co.uk%3E&board=talklondonlive.congestion&sort=Te

But I am left wondering what the populous in general think about it

So with the start date of February 17th, 2003 fast approaching here I am asking..

What do you think of the Central London Congestion Charge and how will it effect you

I think it's a great idea, London is one of the few places where getting around is sometimes much more difficult in a car anyway.

It wont affect me much as I hardly ever visit london and if I do it's either with hubby (disabled, car tax exempt) or on the train...however Southampton are umming and ahhing about introducing a similar scheme in which case I might well rethink how I get into work (especially if the park and ride scheme gets up and running...or bournemouth actually gets a bus service that will get me somewhere near a train station <yeahright&gt.

I'll e nice to do a bus trip in the stated time rather and having to add on ahlf an hour at least. However, this wil have more to do with the traffic light timings being put back to normal and the miles of road works having been finished than the congestion chargine I'm afraid. It won't actually improve the number or efficieny of the buses, except of course they will become packed out (even more so than they are now) cos everyone will give the public transport a go before deciding it's easier to just drive to the edges of the congestion zone and then get the bus/tube whatever.

Oh, and pub prices will go up cos the delivery vans will have to charge for the increased cost of getting stuff into London etc etc etc etc.

I dont feel strongly about this. Honest..

delivery vans could always deliver out of hours or companies could use alternative/dual fuel vehicles.

For myself, if it works it is going to make my life easier as I spend a lot of time on the road in Central London.

I don't get in London much, but I am a bit of a fan of public transport. I reckon something has to be done about congestion and pollution and congestion charging sounds like a good idea to me. Yes the buses will be busier, but presumably they will be quicker too, as they will have less traffic to fight through. As long as the public transport is improved in line with people coming out of their cars it should (note, should) work.

My only worry is that some companies will simply increase london wages so that their employees can still drive in, instead of using the cash to fund car share/private public (ie company park & ride/minibuses etc) transport.

The last thing anyone needs is for london wages to go even further out of step with the rest of the country, it just increases competition for recruitment and raises all london workers wages and so increases the cost of living for everyone in london (whose employers raise their wages to compensate and we all go round again)

My main concern is that it will not have much of an effect, as the charge has been set too low. If it is a revenue raising operation they charge is just about right but if it is to stop congestion it is way too low (it generally cost more than £5 to park for an hour in central London).

They had to try something as London is just getting ridiculous and there are not any other obvious solutions. (They would have tried them if there were.)

I really hope it works out. However, two things worry me:

1) Congestion charging is a complex business and hasn't been tried that often. Ideally one would try somewhere in the UK a little bit smaller first before trying it on the megapolis that is london. Things like the level of the charge, the zone covered, the alternatives on offer can make a big difference to success or failure.

2) It struck me, when I lived there, that elements of London public transport were already saturated. In the crucial first six months, before the money to make improvements starts coming in, and people have to make do with what is currently available, things could be tricky.

Sprout

I was in London last week. I know what to expect because I used to live there, BUT, it took nearly an hour to get by bus from Tower Bridge to Oxford Circus and that was at mid-day. An average speed of around one mile an hour and apparantly it's going to get worse! As for the congestion charge and private hire, I had the impression the thieving b**tards in the black cabs were already charging it

"speed of around one mile an hour"

Most people walk at between 3 and 6 miles an hour, I prefer walking round london anyway tiring but you get a better feel for where you are. (I like the tube too but I don't get to use it as much as I'd like anymore)

For some of us, there is no option, upto 10 hours a day in central London in the car
but at least I'll be exempt

Was reading my book on the bus this morning, and so missed my stop (first time in 2.5 years) Ended up over the other side of Tower Bridge, and so decided to walk to Guy's hospital along that side of the river (probably faster than trying to figure out bus routes)
HAd great fun along Fenchurch street as the cars and i played catch up...ie they would sit there for several minutes as i walked past, and then would catch up with me / pass me. Two minutes later I'd be passing the first car again. FUN!

I hope the charge works...I'm just not too sure it will. Plus I hope they increase the number of buses (at least on my route) before the Shoreditch road works finish (my bus route is foreshortened because these roadworks were preventing a routine service. However, evn without the buses going that far you still have to wait an avarage of 20 minutes before anything comes along. And it's a 10 minute service.

Hmm...who put that soapbox there?

My overland train takes me straight into Liverpool Street and I work in Broadgate. I very rarely need to take a car into work and then it's at the weekends so it might be quite easy to park up in Shoreditch and take a cab.

Liam. <- a contractor, I'll find a way to cover the cost

Well they had to do SOMETHING!

I used to live 5 miles from school (and subsequently work) and it took 1½ hours to get there by bus, and only an hour to walk.

Last time I went back to London, 2 years ago, it took me over an hour to travel ONE mile - even in the very outer outskirts. Dread to think what the middle must be like.

If congestion charging encourages even a few people to walk or get the bus it has to be a good thing.

proper cycle lanes would be good too, or lessons on how bus drivers can *share* the bus lane (I've seen it happen it is possible)...oh and fines for the stupid idiot who walk in cycle lanes.

PQ (recently seen shouting at student pedestrians to get out of the damn cycle lanes...while walking...if I ever find a way to cycle to work they'll be in trouble)

Sorry, PQ, but I have a thing against cyclists.....ever since once sent me sprawling over the pavements while I was decanting myself from a bus. I apparently didn't realise that I had to look both ways before getting of a bus.......

I don't walk in cycle lanes though. I have a liking for life...

Can we then also have fines for the cyclists who come up the inside of buses that are stopped at bus stops (thanks to cars that are parked in such a way that that bus cannot actually pull up at the pavement?

*oh, but she's having a rant day*

Oh yeah, I'm all for making cycling better for the cyclists but that doesn't mean they get away with being idiots, although the same goes for pedestrians too, theres no comeback if you get knocked down by a cyclist while stood *on* a cycle lane. Although I'm always tempted to go round handing out free bike lights to the kids when it starts getting dark.

PQ (the nutter who looks both ways before crossing cycle lanes)

Yes, cycle lanes would be welcomed by the taxi connunity in case the Bus Lane was busy.

sorry happy, but I have to dispute your comment "delivery vans could always deliver out of hours or companies could use alternative/dual fuel vehicles".

most delivery vans couldn't use alternate fuels, because they are not entirely london based, and the rest of the country definately has not got any infrastructure for them.

as to delivering out of hours, articulated lorries don't have that option, as they are generally on a tight turnaround to stay within the legal hours. it takes all day to go from the distribution center to varius cities and back again.

neither do commercial trucks, who have to turn up at businesses when they are there. there is no point turning up to fix the electric if it has already got dark.

for those few businesses who could accept deliveries outside office hours, they would have to pay their staff overtime, so it would increase their costs massively.

and all this assumes that congestion charging works. there are reasons to think that only 70% of vehicles will be correctly identified. the other 30% will be miss-identified, and it will then be up to you to prove that you were not their, rather than them having to prove you were.

fighting this will be very expensive for both sides.

while I agree that london specifically has to do something, the system they are going to impliment is not it.

I am looking forward to seeing it fail as misserably as it looks like it wants to, as I really dislike political decisions to impliment halfbaked ideas.

Xyroth

I can't see why there would be such a mis-identification problem. The technology is broadly similar to that for speeding and traffic lights cameras and they don't have anywhere near a 30% mis-identification rate.

Re - availability of alternative fuels, freight delivery patterns - the whole point of congestion charging is to change some of these things that you present as givens - if everyone just carries on as before then it will indeed be a failure.

Sprout