h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Does this count as topic drift then?

Didn't he give us permission to digress?

This all reminds me of the excellent lampoon of LotR I read when I was small called "Bored of the Rings" which had me wetting myself with laughter. Anyone else had the pleasure of reading it?

Sample piece of humour (not the sharpest of satirical jokes, sure, but it's about the only bit I remember): instead of Bilbo Baggins, the character's called D**do B*gg*r.

Hmm. Just looked it up on Amazon; some of the JRRT rabid fans' comments are pretty funny (like "I really don't think you should make fun of these books" - like they're the Bible or something... ) but I've remembered just how puerile the humour of it was, so the whole hilarity thing might be due to the fact that anything with the word 'fart' in it seems funny when you're 11.

Some people really take the origin of the term "fan" to it's extremes...but so long as they don't start killing people, good for them... *decides not to get so far off-topic as to expand on the cheap humour of 'fart' *

Yeah I read that years and years ago. Seem to remember finding it funny (but you're right, there are some people who regard it with the same reverence as the bible). Argagorn was a called Arrowroot, that's about as much as I can remember.

(he's Argagorn in the Basque translation )

No, in basque he's Joe Ekkerkiki.

What have I unleashed?! Trevor son of Kevin? Elvis the ancient King (or whatever it was)?! AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

(BTW, never underestimate the place of the fart in modern humour, man )

'There are no real women in TLOTR. This is a major flaw...'

Nine rings for Elven-kings (or Queens) under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords (or Ladies) in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men (or Women) doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord (or Lady) on his (or her) dark throne
In the land of Mordor where the shadows lie.

Bored of the Rings - yip - this completist has got it. Tom Bombadil and Goldberry as tripped out LSD freaks is particularly apposite

Well, I went out and spent fifteen quid (fifteen quid mind you) on a copy of LoTR, and yes, it IS definitely boring.

I have just got to the end of book 5, and we are back to Sam and Frodo in Mordor. (Though I have been skipping back and forth a lot, so I have already read a lot of book 6).

In the earlier stages it was boring, but as an earlier poster said, that was part of the effect. Tramping on for days in danger and discomfort was pretty bloody boring for the participants, too.

But the stuff in Minas Tirith is SO high-blown and high-falutin'. Not quite biblical. Yukk. And all those noble-browed women falling for Aragorn.

I dipped into the appendices too, and I know that Tolkein was trying to indicate that the hobbits were simple rustic folk, but the salt of the earth, of course; and that Aragon was the walking embodiment of nobility, with the common touch. But, but, but.

And that AWFUL poetry....

I am enjoying it rather in the way you enjoy digging ditches. It is time consuming, mentally numbing, and hard physical work, (this is all three books plus appendices in a single volume), but it is fairly satisfying when you get to the end.

Who the hell was paying Tolkein's wages as a tutor and Oxford don while he was skiving away inventing all this stuff?

***B

I assume by this you are no lover of the English language, or at least have a lot to learn.

Whoah! Flaming!

Yes I am a lover of the English language - just not in the way Tolkein uses it. The man can NOT write poetry, though some of the verse has a good playground rhythm to it.

The sub-heroic stuff that the Gondor and Rohhim (or however it is spelt) is awful. It has no rhythm, no sinew, no pace, no light, and no poetry. Just high flown pedantry.

I am not sure what he was aiming at. I grew up with the King James Version of the Bible, and the 1552 prayer book, and it isn't that. It isnt really 18th century or Agusinian either. Just a melange of words placed in strange orders to produce a formal effect.

Awful, awful, awful.

Yes, I know that he was a Professor of English. But that does not make him a skilled and poetic practitioner.

The bits that DO work linguistically are the pieces about the hobbits, where he is striving for a simpler and more direct effect.

The problem is that I DO love the English Language, not that I DON'T love it.

***B

The poem about the Rohirrim arriving in Minas Tirith ("Red fell the dew in Rammas Echor") was written in a style which will not be familiar to most modern readers, but was common up to the 12th century throughout Northern Europe. Icelandic Edda poetry, Irish and Anglo Saxon poetry all used this extremely formal structure with assonance, cross rhymes and numerous words starting with the same sounds.

I thought this was one of the most beautiful poems in the book, and to be really pedantic, yes I thought this was a beautiful poem. My 10-year old daughter's reaction to it was: "Cool!".

That is interesting. I just started skipping all the verse after they got to Rivendell. I'll check it out next time I am re-united w/ my copy.

a philistine called Ben

Within the context of the story, most of it is song, rather than poetry, which perhaps puts a different spin on it. Whoever said above that there was a 'playground rhythm' was spot on - Tolkien was emulating not Keats, Wordsworth or whoever, but those (interminable?) lays and sagas that he loved so much. They weren't composed to be read silently from the page but to be chanted or sung - try it with Toliken's poems, if you don't mind getting locked up! Or try getting hold of a recording of some set to music....

i've read lotr 2 times, and although i found it incredibly difficult to get through, i did overall enjoy it. i was initially terrified by the dark riders, and some of the ideas that were invented in the book just thrilled me.But, i wasn't left with the impression that there was no character development, as you stated. unlike the hobbit, for me each of the characters in lotr gained so much as the story developed. This was my biggest criticism of the film, that everyone of the characters in the film seemed to me to be two dimentional moving cardboard cutouts.
Where as in the book, the personalities seemed to grow, weaker like frodo, stronger like sam.For example, you know the bit where gimli asks for some strands of galadriel's hair? i strongly admired his bold statement, which was entirely unimportant for development of plot, but simply made gimli a more interesting person to know. there are plenty of other examples i could think of.

but in defence of the reason why some people read and enjoy the book, i will give the example of my uncle. he has been reading the book for the last twenty years and i think he's read it about 23 times now. ok, so he's a psycho, but the point is, i asked him one day if he really understands the book, and he said no. so, in other words, the very fact that the book is so hard to understand is the reason so many people give up on it, but it's also the reason that so many people get forever lost in the book, never to be rehabilitated back into the real world.

and on the matter of opinions, i wonder what would have happened if tolkien had spent his whole life writing lotr but had never published it. or if the planet got blown up just as he was about to do so. maybe no-one would have ever heard of him.

My much younger self read LOTR and loved it.Last year I got another copy(after 25 odd years it had mysteriously disappeared)and sat down to read it again.I couldn't! After many years of reading SF and fantasy some of which is written in a modern flow along style I JUST COULD NOT READ IT.It's not that I can't read large books as I just reread Perdido Street Station and I still love Gormenghast.However I loved the film and can't wait for the next.

However I have to say I do wonder sometimes if there are any good fantasy stories(apart from Gormenghast) that DO NOT have elves,fairies,trolls,unicorns,dragons,orcs,magic items,wizards or swords.Or are these the only elements that make for a fantasy book?
A little bit of a topic drift there but not as much as others.

Incog.

>However I have to say I do wonder sometimes if there are any good fantasy stories(apart from Gormenghast) that DO NOT have elves,fairies,trolls,unicorns,dragons,orcs,magic items,wizards or swords.Or are these the only elements that make for a fantasy book?

Try some of the books of Diana Wynne Jones. Most of them are for children but they are still worth reading. Try 'Howl's Moving Castle', 'The Homeward Bounders' and 'Archer's Goon'.

Indeed!

...and didn't a certain modest researcher write a rather good entry on DWJ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A533963

...Scouted by an equally modest researcher!