h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well, thank goodness we've got that cleared up at last.
Would that there were such a clear resolution to all our deliberations.

Ah, jwf, we belong to a time when life was much simpler.

"It seems to me a visit to the Butcher's is sufficient for the purchase of sausage, or many sausages. There is no need to patronise any other shops unless you intend to purchase (one) sausage from each shop."

Not counting the "big" ones - black puddings and liver sausage - it used to be a choice of "pork" or "beef" even though there was more pork than beef in the beef ones. (Perhaps in your case there was "moose".) Now we have turkey, venison, and there are doubtless blends of all types. There are local recipe ones e.g. Cumberland, sage and thyme ... Then there are sausages that you won't find in the butchers': I speak of the vegetarian sausage by Quorn, Linda McC, Jane Asher (h'mm?) ....

My wife got banned from a butcher's shop near to her mother's. When our daughter was three she'd go in with her mother (shopping for Grandma) and say: "It smells awful in here." and she'd hold her nose. Then she'd look at the trays of meat and ask "What do they have to kill to get that, Mummy?" "Aw, poor things!"

> Ah, jwf, we belong to a time when life was much simpler. <

Ah, the smell of blood-soaked sawdust on a freshly waxed hardwood floor, the simple clang of empty meathooks, the whoosh of cold air and the k-chunk of the freezer door, headless fowl hanging from the rafters, the slap of knives on the razor strop, the cleaver cracking bone on the butcher-block ...oh, and those hand-cranked meat-grinders, umh-hmm!

Civilisation's last lost contact with the real world of nature that supports it.


!jwf!

Yes, jwf, I couldn't agree more. I have always made a point of referring to meat as "dead animal", to help my children not to fall into the trap of forgetting where their food comes from. It's too easy to see pork as an anonymous thing that comes from the supermarket, and a pig as something that lives on Old MacDonald's farm.

In cultures closer to the archetypal hunter-gatherer, the hunter, and sometimes the consumers, will take a few moments to thank the pig, or the spirit of all pigs, for their food. Such respect may not be rationally ('scientifically') defensible, but I think it's a healthy attitude.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

>> Such respect may not be rationally ('scientifically') defensible, but I think it's a healthy attitude. <<

More than healthy, it's essential to Life's harmony.

The fact this can't be proven 'scientifically' demonstrates clearly just one of the inadequacies of Science as a viable replacement for spirituality.

And ..Now back to Brit Eng:

Can anyone tell me (e-mail if it won't pass the Mods) the real meaning behind calling someone a 'tosser'? My first thought is 'careless' or 'off-handed' in the sense of being too casual - not to be taken seriously. But on Coronation Street (the only place I hear real English spoken) it seems to be used with much contempt, and I wonder if it's meant to express distaste to the point of regurgitation (tossing). Surely not.

peace
jwf

Purely in the interests of transatlantic understanding, it's the same as calling someone a w%$£er, (or 'merchant banker', if you prefer the rhyming slang version). The meaning and strength of insult are the same, though it seems to possibly be less 'offensive' in terms of broadcasting standards.

As far as precise usage in colloquial English is concerned, let's say that the sentence "John is standing on the bridge and I think he's going to toss himself off" would have two *entirely* different meanings, one involving suicide or bungee jumping, and one an act of public indecency.

Or he could be planning to do both !

Interestingly, a lady would only be doing one of those .... or more likely tossing John off the bridge because he's a tosser !!

"Now it is the time of night
That the graves all gaping wide,
Every one lets forth his sprite,
In the church-way paths to glide:
And we fairies, that do run
By the triple Hecate's team,
From the presence of the sun,
Following darkness like a dream,
Now are frolic: not a mouse
Shall disturb this hallow'd house:
I am sent with broom before,
To sweep the dust behind the door."

Puck, from 'A midsummer night's dream'.

Any Shakespearean scholars here? I want to know what the "triple" in "the triple Hecate's team" refers to. Can anyone help? TIA.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Hecate was a Greek goddess of magic and spells. She stood at a crossroads warding off evil. In early days, she just a single body, but in later years she was shown with three bodies standing with their backs together, so that she could look in all directions at once.

(Nods towards Encyclopaedia Britannica)

Oooh, thanks, Gnomon!

Perhaps we can return again to the issue of plurals, as something started bothering me this weekend:

Why do we say ten pound note, or ten dollar bill, instead of ten pounds note or ten dollars bill? Ok, it sounds funny, but that's probably because we're not used to it.

I have a feeling that this is something to do with the particular grammar that surrounds measurement - perhaps you'll put me straight.

Whatever the reason, this construction is universal in English:

four-man bobsleigh
four-part choir
twelve-foot pole
three-week journey

It has probably been around for a long time, and came about because the plural is superfluous in all of these cases.

You could argue that the plural is superfuous when there's a clear quantifier, e.g. "I own three car." But that's not what we do. (They do in some languages.)

So, sorry Jack, I don't buy that.

Isn't it because the note (as in ten pound note) is a whole object ? ¬¬¬ if you start to unravel it >> a ten pound note is worth ten pounds << you get the plural back ¬¬¬

Maybe if you could tear the note in half (and shed a tear!) and each half was worth 5 pounds (or perhaps £4.90 and £5.10 if you didn't get the two halves equal) we might be more inclined to talk of a ten pounds note ¬¬¬

On the other hand, I could just be on a hallucinagenic ride from having mouldy cheese in my sandwiches last night.

Interestingly (well it was to me) when I originally typed in 'pound' in the first sentence above, I typed pond ¬¬¬ why are there two names for a mill pond / mill pound ? ¬¬¬ (or have I got that wrong too ?)

The singularity of 'ten pound note' might stem from the note itself being the point of discussion.
If I was talking instead about a sum of money, I'd still say "I have ten pounds in my pocket" even if I knew all I had in my pocket was a ten pound note.

Similarly - "There are ten pounds of potatoes on the table / There is a ten-pound bag of potatoes on the table"
In one case, we're talking about potatoes, in the second case, we're talking about a bag, and the same is true for the choir, bobsleigh, pole, etc.

All of the examples given are known as compound adjectives.

"ten-pound" is a description of the "note".

Adjectives, AFAIK, don't have plurals.

Technically, they are compound nouns being used attributively (before the noun). They're not like normal adjectives, as they cannot undergo comparison, and are in fact invariable.

I've never heard of a mill pound, but there is a dog pound and a car pound. In this case, it is a place where confiscated items are stored. Such items are "impounded", that is, put into the pound. My dictionary tells me that a place where fish are kept can also be called a pound, although the fish have not been confiscated. So perhaps a pound which is also a mill pond might be a mill pound.